Caddies, Range Finders & Directional Aids

[Michael Whitaker]

Many of the participants here have expressed their opposition to the use of electronic distance aids, like range finders and GPS devices.

A number of these same individuals embrace the use of caddies and encourage fellow golfers to take a caddy whenever possible.

I played recently at one of the UK's top private clubs and took a caddy. The caddy used a Bushnell range finder to help advise the players in our group on which club to use for a given shot. I must say that this made for a pleasant day on the links.

I had no problem with my caddy using a range finder. Do you?

[Terry Lavin]

Many of the participants here have expressed their opposition to the use of electronic distance aids, like range finders and GPS devices.

A number of these same individuals embrace the use of caddies and encourage fellow golfers to take a caddy whenever possible.

I played recently at one of the UK's top private clubs and took a caddy. The caddy used a Bushnell range finder to help advise the players in our group on which club to use for a given shot. I must say that this made for a pleasant day on the links.

I had no problem with my caddy using a range finder. Do you?

Personal preference should never be snarled at.

[Bill_McBride]

I am actually unhappy with that practice because I think it reflects poorly on the knowledge of the course and the depth of training of the caddies at that course.  I think a caddy who is getting paid more or less $100 a round should know the distances and how they relate to the features of the course other than just the absolute distance to the flagstick.  There is a whole lot more to advising a player on how to play each shot than just distance.

It wouldn't be as objectionable to me if I were paying $30-40, but I'll bet a bag toter with a Bushnell wouldn't know much about reading the greens either.

[Adam Clayman]

Michael, No I dont have a problem with it. However, I like to play a little game with my caddie. First, I tell him the yardage, using my eyes, and then he corrects me. It's an interesting game because I get to test my senses and when the architect deceives me, I get to see how and why that happened. There's few better feelings than getting the yardage within +/- a couple of yards. I'm not deluded into thinking that difference, makes any difference, to my game.

The one course where I was 90% wrong on every yardage... San Francisco G.C. But there the caddie did not use a range finder. He either knew or was very convincing.

One of my pet peeves is when I'm helping a beginner and they want to know exact yardage. For the life of me, I have no idea where they come up with the need to know, but they still do.

Bill, I see that point, and the only place the devices might be needed is when one's ball is off the beaten path, in odd locations a caddie may have never been to before. 

[Keith Buntrock]

Many of the participants here have expressed their opposition to the use of electronic distance aids, like range finders and GPS devices.

A number of these same individuals embrace the use of caddies and encourage fellow golfers to take a caddy whenever possible.

I played recently at one of the UK's top private clubs and took a caddy. The caddy used a Bushnell range finder to help advise the players in our group on which club to use for a given shot. I must say that this made for a pleasant day on the links.

I had no problem with my caddy using a range finder. Do you?

I agree 100%. But I only use my range finder in every round I play except USGA qualifiers.

[Bill_McBride]

Michael, No I dont have a problem with it. However, I like to play a little game with my caddie. First, I tell him the yardage, using my eyes, and then he corrects me. It's an interesting game because I get to test my senses and when the architect deceives me, I get to see how and why that happened. There's few better feelings than getting the yardage within +/- a couple of yards. I'm not deluded into thinking that difference, makes any difference, to my game.

The one course where I was 90% wrong on every yardage... San Francisco G.C. But there the caddie did not use a range finder. He either knew or was very convincing.

One of my pet peeves is when I'm helping a beginner and they want to know exact yardage. For the life of me, I have no idea where they come up with the need to know, but they still do.

Bill, I see that point, and the only place the devices might be needed is when one's ball is off the beaten path, in odd locations a caddie may have never been to before. 

Adam, luckily I never hit my ball in places like that!   But a rangefinder would be helpful then for sure.

[Dan Herrmann]

Michael - I too have no problem.

What's the difference between that and a caddy at Pine Valley using the number-coded sprinklers with the decoding book to give you a distance.

Besides, I'm not good enough that it makes any significant difference.  If you're not a top amateur or getting paid to play, you're probably too inconsistent to gain any real benefit.

[Mac Plumart]

As Terry said, personal preference should rule the day.

Some might not like the lasers, some might not like caddies, some however might like it/them.  I've had people who love caddies to give them reads on putts, while others hate it.

Doesn't it simply boil down to how you like to play the game?  For me it is an enjoyable escape from the pressures of life and business.  If it is going to give me  a sense of satisfaction to use only my two legs, eyeballs, brain and hickories, then I'll walk the course with my old school stuff and relish the good shots that I "eyeballed" the wrong distance and missed the green with.  If that type of stuff is going to frustrate me that particular day, then I'll use my 460cc driver, range finder, ProV1's and ride around on a cart.

I don't disparage either side of the equation...as in my mind I think it is whatever gives you the most enjoyment.  However, I will say this...I think greater than 50% of the people I've seen play might get more of a stress reliever if they didn't keep score and just walked the course in the direction of their last shot.

Just my 2 cents.

[Matt Langan]

I personally prefer the technology when I'm playing without a caddy, but I think that if you hire a caddy, they should be required to do a little bit of work to earn their fee, don't ya think? And by work, I don't mean looking through a range finder and clicking a button.

If I could afford a caddy for every round, I would. I would always prefer one to a range finder, but I think it a bit ridiculous to strike against the use of range finders - they aren't allowing players to cheat nor will they ever be banned from the game. It's the world we live in!

[Sean_A]

Lets just sat a yardage gun caddie would get less of a tip from me.  I don't rightly know why a caddie would use a tool in front of his boss which essentially makes him obsolete, but that is another question.  That said I don't seek to hire caddies so I am probably not a representative sample.  In fact I am on record as not being in favour of yardage aids or caddies for advice.  IMO it sems rather silly to have all these complicated rules about score card mistakes, building a stance etc etc, but we can have a yardage gun, cart and advice from a caddie.  However, I have no problem if folks want to play this way, but I don't want to hear this lot whinge about course design when they are using loads of outside agencies to mitigate the effectiveness of architecture.  

Ciao

[jeffwarne]

Many of the participants here have expressed their opposition to the use of electronic distance aids, like range finders and GPS devices.

A number of these same individuals embrace the use of caddies and encourage fellow golfers to take a caddy whenever possible.

I played recently at one of the UK's top private clubs and took a caddy. The caddy used a Bushnell range finder to help advise the players in our group on which club to use for a given shot. I must say that this made for a pleasant day on the links.

I had no problem with my caddy using a range finder. Do you?

I'm reminded of when a caddie pulled out a rangefinder at my club.
I pointed to a cart in the distance(could've just as easily been a trolly), pointed to the rangefinder and commented that with the two of those I certainly didn't need him.
I do have a peeve when the caddie gives me an absolute distance to the pin shot with a rangefinder, but no knowledge of landmarks and doesn't know where on the green the pin is located (where I could at least extrapolate the COG yardage)
I'm actually fine with a center of green yardage (with or without a pin sheet) as any error to that portion of the green is less punished.

I'm not sure why caddies would further their own obsolescence.
I'd just as soon there be 150 bushes visible to eyeball yardages(to the COG of course) and that's it
so I guess I'm guilty of aids as well

[Chris Cupit]

I take a caddie for many if not most of my rounds and I am glad for him (or her) to use a rangefinder, yardage book or anything else that can help confirm the yardage I have calculated.  Why wouldn't you want to know that your yardage was correct?  A caddie is more than just a yardage giver but if that's all you're looking for I can see how the money may be a waste.

To me a caddie also is advising on the wind and its direction.  They may help with how far a shot will actually play regardless of the "actual" yardage.  Reading greens, informing me of where my opponent's ball may be or what club "we" think he may have used....the caddie is my unoffical partner that can offer encouragement, maybe a kick in the butt, maybe he knows some little tidbit of info that helps determine my play for some crazy reason I've never thought of.

If all you want or expect from a caddie is a bag toter with yardage knowledge I think you sell the caddie and yourself way short.

But back to the point, I have played enough golf to always do my own calculation of yardage and try and confirm that with my caddie--I want both of us to be as informed as possible and in today's game that means using a laser type range finder (I will not use a GPS)

[Cliff Hamm]

Instead of yardage is it not more helpful for the caddy to advise what club to hit?  That may take a few holes, but saying it's a 7 iron is preferable to how many yards.

[Jaeger Kovich]

I am required by the golf club I caddy at (one of the finest in the nyc area) to use a range finder/lazer when I caddy. I can tell you the yardage to the pin, middle, front, back and bunkers, both with and without my range finder. I can also tell you that all the loopers at WF will have them as well, and 99% of the Metro section PGA pros will have them and be using during their tournament rounds. The reason my club requires them is pace of play, not saying it works or not, but most of our members would be pissed if I didn't have mine when they are hitting their approach on #1.

Cliff - If you have a caddy who knows what he is doing, he wont just hand you the 7 iron. He will say he likes 150 yards.. I will notice what wedges you like to hit around the green, or maybe the hybrid because you hit it on 8 of the first 9 holes, but it otherwise it puts the caddy in to much danger of being wrong. Only after a standing relationship will I start to pull clubs... I even told the pro I sometimes loop for that the I'm not clubbing him any more. I will only give him the yardage I like because when we are about 190 out and he wants to know if its the 8 or 7, those numbers just dont make any sense.

Sean - I have yet to have someone tip me less because I'm required to use a range finder. I promise you that I will make your golf experience that day better, and will be worth every penny on the greens.. they dont call me the magic caddy for nothing!

Bill - 1. I'm no bag carrier! 2. What happens when you get an old school southern caddy who grew up loopin since he was 12, can read greens, but cant read or add because he never went to school? Do you want to spend 4:30 on the golf course waiting for him to add it up or would you rather he pushed the button while chasing you all over the country side?!

[Tim Martin]

I have no issue with range finders but if I take a caddie I want him giving me the yardages along with the local knowledge he has about the course. The caddie ideally will factor in the wind and give me a distance to hit it as in "hit your 175 club". The caddies at Kiawah Ocean are spot on in this regard. Additionally they should be giving you yardages to clear obstacles(bunkers,water) and know what the pin sheets are for that day. At a course I have not played before or only a couple of times I would have them help read the putts as well.  If you only want the caddie to carry your bag then you are missing the point. For me taking a caddie is always a treat.

[Terry Lavin]

Instead of yardage is it not more helpful for the caddy to advise what club to hit?  That may take a few holes, but saying it's a 7 iron is preferable to how many yards.

I really don't like a caddie "clubbing" me unless he's been on the bag long enough to know how long I hit certain clubs. 

[Dan Herrmann]

Most all TOUR caddies use laser rangefinders (with elevation gain/loss sensors) during practice rounds.

[Sean_A]

I am required by the golf club I caddy at (one of the finest in the nyc area) to use a range finder/lazer when I caddy. I can tell you the yardage to the pin, middle, front, back and bunkers, both with and without my range finder. I can also tell you that all the loopers at WF will have them as well, and 99% of the Metro section PGA pros will have them and be using during their tournament rounds. The reason my club requires them is pace of play, not saying it works or not, but most of our members would be pissed if I didn't have mine when they are hitting their approach on #1.

Cliff - If you have a caddy who knows what he is doing, he wont just hand you the 7 iron. He will say he likes 150 yards.. I will notice what wedges you like to hit around the green, or maybe the hybrid because you hit it on 8 of the first 9 holes, but it otherwise it puts the caddy in to much danger of being wrong. Only after a standing relationship will I start to pull clubs... I even told the pro I sometimes loop for that the I'm not clubbing him any more. I will only give him the yardage I like because when we are about 190 out and he wants to know if its the 8 or 7, those numbers just dont make any sense.

Sean - I have yet to have someone tip me less because I'm required to use a range finder. I promise you that I will make your golf experience that day better, and will be worth every penny on the greens.. they dont call me the magic caddy for nothing!

Bill - 1. I'm no bag carrier! 2. What happens when you get an old school southern caddy who grew up loopin since he was 12, can read greens, but cant read or add because he never went to school? Do you want to spend 4:30 on the golf course waiting for him to add it up or would you rather he pushed the button while chasing you all over the country side?!

What has the world come to when a caddy is forced to use a yardage gun in front of his boss?  Very sad indeed.

Ciao

[Paul Carey]

I do not like th rangefinder for one main reason.  I like to have my distance to the hole as front distance plus yardage on the green of the pin i.e.  "It is 133 to the front and 151 hole".  When the caddy uses a rangefinder I find that convention to be lost.

As for speed of play when a caddy is double looping the rangefinder does save time, especially when the player is so lazy that he can't get the distance to the front/middle off the heads while the caddy services the other player. 

Huh?  I have never found that the educational levels of caddies was geographically differentiated

Bill - 1. I'm no bag carrier! 2. What happens when you get an old school southern caddy who grew up loopin since he was 12, can read greens, but cant read or add because he never went to school? Do you want to spend 4:30 on the golf course waiting for him to add it up or would you rather he pushed the button while chasing you all over the country side?!

[Chris Wirthwein]

I use a lase every round, but actually wish we didn't have them.

Remembering back to playing as a kid 40 years ago, the muni I played at had a pine tree on maybe half the holes that was 150 "from the green." (I'm sure it was to the middle, but nobody ever said.) I fondly remember how proud I was when I could reach the green with a 5 iron (today's 6 iron) from the 150 tree.

After a while you learned you really didn't need to look for the pine trees. You just knew if you hit it to the bottom the the hill, it was a 5 iron, top of the ridge was a 7, etc.

Probably just nostalgia, but I feel like the game was more interesting and perhaps a bit more magical playing that way. And we played a lot faster!

[Anthony Gray]

  As a trained caddy I favor old school. Club selection is based on more factors than distance. All this obsession with distance has taken feel and shot-making has tarnished the heart of the game. When I caddy I love to ask my gentleman golfer "What club/shot does it feel like to you?" and then go from there. I have also found that it is difficult to use a range finder and a lit tobacco product at the same time. One more reason to prefer old school.


   T Gray

[Bill_McBride]

Bill - 1. I'm no bag carrier! 2. What happens when you get an old school southern caddy who grew up loopin since he was 12, can read greens, but cant read or add because he never went to school? Do you want to spend 4:30 on the golf course waiting for him to add it up or would you rather he pushed the button while chasing you all over the country side?!

Jaeger, haven't met you so haven't a clue!  Does your club make you use a range finder?  I personally don't like that.  I would not employ the looper you describe a second time.  There are basic requirements to the job, the better you are at them the more you get paid. 

[Matthew Petersen]

I don't have any issue with a laser, GPS, or any other kind of range finder.

I have never had anyone caddy for me, but I honestly can't fathom why someone would be OK with the concept of caddies but not OK with an electronic distance finder. Caddies offer far more advice than a pure yardage, as the comments in this thread prove. And a GPS can't offer local knowledge, or read the greens, or carry your bag.

Knowing the yardage certainly doesn't mean you know everything you should want to know about a shot--wind, elevation change, where to miss, etc. And knowing all of that sure doesn't mean you can hit the shot necessary.

[Pat Burke]

I'm kind of worried.
I've checked in to this thread earlier today, and now after 9:30pm  PST
Not ONE coment from Melvyn!?!?

Somebody needs to call him, and make sure he feels okay

[Colin Macqueen]

Folks,

As a Scotsman I've never had the urge to hire a caddy.  Range finders are no good to me as I have an error bar in the region of plus/minus 10 metres on the distance of any club I hit (at best!). And that's provided I make reasonably pure contact. As a Carnoustie caddy when I was wee I never imagined that caddies would ever get paid more than enough to but a Mars bar at the halfway house so that they would have enough energy to cart the bag for the final nine holes!

The Hielander.