Tumble Creek (Roslyn, WA) Doak, BACK NINE PICS ADDED

[Peter Ferlicca]

Tumble Creek Club is a Tom Doak design in Roslyn, WA that opened in 2005.  Tom Doak had 3 courses in the top ten new private in 2005: Ballyneal, Stone Eagle, and Tumble Creek.  Let’s just say he had a good year.  Tumble Creek is built in a forest that is in a glorious setting.  You see mountain peaks, Cle Elum River, big meadow, and much more.  It is a very nice and enjoyable walk, which seems to flow along effortlessly.   It is a residential private club; you won’t notice any homes in the photos because they are set back into the trees.  To be a member you must own property at either Tumble Creek or Suncadia (Prospector and Rope Rider course).   I will post the front nine right now, my batteries ran out this morning.  The back nine will come the next time I am out with nice weather.

Hole 1 Par 4 (400 yards) Awesome opening hole, pretty tight tee shot right of the bat.  The second shot requires a lot of touch to the uphill green.







Hole 2 Par 3 (183 yards)  A slightly downhill par 3 to a really undulating green.  If you miss right with that pin, you are going to put up a big score.






Hole 3 Par 4 (360 yards)  This can be driveable if the wind is up, but generally you want to get it up to the top shelf to see the green.  The approach is delicate to another wicked front pin.





Hole 4 Par 5 (575 yards)  Some say one of Doaks best par 5’s.  It is uphill the whole way, but has an exhilarating second shot, and the view for the third shot is forever.  





They are adding a top ladies tee because it is too hard for them, it will be around 235 yards, will be perfect for an alternate par 3.







Hole 5 Par 4 (420 yards)  A slight dogleg left that requires a perfect tee shot in between the bunkers.  



A cool thumbprint in the front of the green makes for some fun putts.





Hole 6 Par 4 (430 yards)  A good dogleg left that swing around the bunkers on the inside.  


View of the Suncadia Lodge looking back at the tee.






Hole 7 Par 3 (225 yards)  A long par 3 to another pretty wild green.  Both of the par 3s are pretty tame looking on the front, but both have wicked greens.  




Hole 8 Par 5 (485 yards)  I love the simplicity of the this par 5, dead straight with bunkers pinching in on the drive, and then a green that falls away on the approach.







Hole 9 Par 4 (460 yards)  Hardest hole on the course, some of the coolest fairway movement I have seen.   If the wind is up this drive is tough just to get it on top of the hill.

[Ron Farris]

Where is all the Poa??

What are the grass types?  This looks fun to play as most Doak courses do.
Who were the Renaissance Men involved?

[Peter Ferlicca]

Where is all the Poa??

What are the grass types?  This looks fun to play as most Doak courses do.
Who were the Renaissance Men involved?

It is bent grass greens, tees, and fairways.  Fescue rough

The picture inside the golf house shows; Slawnik, Grave, Urbina, Placek, Schneider, Iverson, Doak, and one other person I cant think of right now.

[David_Elvins]

Not sure about the mowing lines.  Would be interested to know if they have changed much since opening. 

[Michael Dugger]

Not sure about the mowing lines.  Would be interested to know if they have changed much since opening. 

Are you kidding?  Is it too unconventional for you?

Genius.....this looks better than I thought it was...

[Peter Ferlicca]

Not sure about the mowing lines.  Would be interested to know if they have changed much since opening.  

Are you kidding?  Is it too unconventional for you?

Genius.....this looks better than I thought it was...

.

[Michael Dugger]

Not sure about the mowing lines.  Would be interested to know if they have changed much since opening.  

Are you kidding?  Is it too unconventional for you?

Genius.....this looks better than I thought it was...

Yeah that is what I thought, I love the classic cut mowing lines.  During the summer they do diagonal stripes, but during the spring and fall it is this style.  It makes for more strategy on which side of the fairway to attack the pin.

I suspect he is more referring to where the fairways start and stop.  But this is classic Doak.....optical illusions...great stuff

[David_Elvins]

I suspect he is more referring to where the fairways start and stop.  But this is classic Doak.....optical illusions...great stuff

Classic Doak?  I am not aware of other Doak courses that have an Augusta style 'second cut'.   

[Michael Dugger]

I suspect he is more referring to where the fairways start and stop.  But this is classic Doak.....optical illusions...great stuff

Classic Doak?  I am not aware of other Doak courses that have an Augusta style 'second cut'.   

We might be pondering different aspects of the cut.  I think the shapes of the fairways, in relation to the pitch of the ground, creates classic Doak illusions. 

I have no comment on the secondary cut, however, although Tom has mentioned on here a time or two before that he is not opposed to the rough offering the best angle to a green.  A little wrinkle to annoy golfers who think the fairway is always best...

[Peter Ferlicca]

I suspect he is more referring to where the fairways start and stop.  But this is classic Doak.....optical illusions...great stuff

Classic Doak?  I am not aware of other Doak courses that have an Augusta style 'second cut'.   

Oh I got you now.  So you are thinking Clear Creek Tahoe where everything is fairway cut, but here at Tumble Creek the fairways are bordered by rough. 

[David_Elvins]

Michael,

Here are a couple of examples of what I am thinking. 

In this photo the left hand fairway line looks wrong to me.  IMO (from the photo, it should go further to the left.)


In this photo, it looks strange to me that the second fairway bunker is stuck out in the rough.  It looks to me like the fairway should kick out to the left past the 1st bunker. 



It may just be that the out of season grass colour is tricking my eyes but i would be interested to know if the fairway widths had krept in at some stage.

Pete,

as above, I think some of fairway widths look "un doak" .  also the large areas of second cut looks "un doak" to me to.  I suspect thaht e out of season grass colours may be fooling my eye slightly but I would be intereted to find out more about this.

[Peter Ferlicca]

David,

The mowing lines have been the same since the start according to Superintendent Jared Jeffries.  Since the fairways are bent grass and the rough is fescue it would be hard for the fairways shrink.  I am sure Doak will give us some input.

[Jordan Wall]

Peter,

I'll have to make you play the 235 tees on four.  Are there any other holes out there too tough to handle from the middle tees?  Be sure to let me know beforehand..

Cool pictures, course is looking good.

[Michael Taylor]

Looks like a very solid golf course. Nice pics.

And I agree with David re: 1st hole.

I look forward to the back 9.

Pup

[Craig Sweet]

The greens look relatively flat compared to some recent Doak efforts. Is that the case, or simply the way they photographed?

[Sean_A]

I really like the green sites - they appear to rely on the slopes of the land.  I am much less convinced by the fairway lines and bunker scheme.  Many of the bunkers look like they are plunked down rather than dug in which seems odd on a hilly site.  Perhaps the fairway lines look very stark because of spring growth?  In any case, I agree with David, something doesn't suit my eye from tee to green in many of the photos.

I haven't seen a Doak like this before, does anyone know if the company was trying something different?

Peter

Thanks for the pix!

Ciao

[Sean Leary]

The greens look relatively flat compared to some recent Doak efforts. Is that the case, or simply the way they photographed?

Flatter than BN and Stone Eagle, yes. But tons of internal contour.

This course made Renaissance's Top 10 as voted by the employees. That gives you a sense of how good it is.

[Tom_Doak]

Sean:

We are always trying something different.

At Tumble Creek, we thought that since there weren't many classic courses in Washington state, we would try to build something like Tillinghast or George Thomas might have built there ... a bit more of a classic parkland style with less frilly bunkers.  [We'd just finished Barnbougle and St. Andrews Beach and wanted to get away from that up in the trees.  The bunkers are reasonably deep, though ... guess they just don't look it because of the blazing white sand which the client wanted.] 

For the same reason, a few of the greens are built on fill pads, although a lot of them still sit right on the ground.  It's a terrific set of greens ... lots to think about, with a good variety of subtlety and drama.

Brian Slawnik and Chad Grave ran the project.  For a few days, I had the entire team plus two interns up there working ... but the two Brians [Slawnik and Schneider] did the most shaping work, and Eric Iverson and Bruce Hepner spent a lot of time there, too.  [I think Jim was working at Pasatiempo or SFGC at the time; I know that one trip was the only time he spent there.]

The mowing lines have not changed, as far as I can tell from the photos.  Since the bentgrass fairways are much more expensive per acre than the bluegrass/fescue rough, we didn't take them out as far as we might have otherwise, and we couldn't go wide enough to let the native grasses (which often result in lost balls or unplayable lies) come too close to the fairways.  These fairways are generally 40-45 yards wide, though -- they are certainly not small -- and I can't imagine that Clear Creek really has much more fairway area than Tumble Creek.

P.S. to David:  That fairway line on the left of #1 looks the way it does because there was a road along the left side of the hole during construction.

[Mike Hendren]

I really liked the 2nd - Doaks shows off his ability to design a very challenging golf hole on flat ground without resorting to theatrics.  The entire hole revolves around the rear center spine in the green.  I'm also among those that hold the fourth in high regard.  One must really challenge the left-hand fairway bunkers from the tee not only to cut distance but more importantly to get a look at the green.  Even then, the attempt to reach the green in two is from an awkward lie and angle with more bunkers to challenge. 

I look forward to the back nine photographs as I generally fall into the camp that feels the finish is uninspiring.  The 11th is a spectacular one shotter, however and the internal green contours on the other one shot hole on the back are off the charts.

Overall the seamless transitions from fairyways to greens is the course's hallmark.  I'm a big fan of subtle architecture on subtle sites and I think Doak pulls it off nicely at Tumble Creek.  I'd like to see more parkland work from him in flyover country. 

Mike

[Peter Pallotta]

Thanks much for the great pixs, Peter.

Lovely use of the mountain on the (I agree) charmingly simple 8th hole.  The mountain looks like one from the final scene of a terrific movie, "Ride the High Country", an early Sam Peckinpah film starring the aging Randolph Scott and Joel McCrea.

What a strange thing - two Par 5s that I think I might really like. (I don't like many par 5s). That curling, uphill 4th reminds me of the 8th at Crystal Downs (if I ignore the mountains)

Peter

[Sean_A]

Sean:

We are always trying something different.

At Tumble Creek, we thought that since there weren't many classic courses in Washington state, we would try to build something like Tillinghast or George Thomas might have built there ... a bit more of a classic parkland style with less frilly bunkers.  [We'd just finished Barnbougle and St. Andrews Beach and wanted to get away from that up in the trees.  The bunkers are reasonably deep, though ... guess they just don't look it because of the blazing white sand which the client wanted.] 

For the same reason, a few of the greens are built on fill pads, although a lot of them still sit right on the ground.  It's a terrific set of greens ... lots to think about, with a good variety of subtlety and drama.

Brian Slawnik and Chad Grave ran the project.  For a few days, I had the entire team plus two interns up there working ... but the two Brians [Slawnik and Schneider] did the most shaping work, and Eric Iverson and Bruce Hepner spent a lot of time there, too.  [I think Jim was working at Pasatiempo or SFGC at the time; I know that one trip was the only time he spent there.]

The mowing lines have not changed, as far as I can tell from the photos.  Since the bentgrass fairways are much more expensive per acre than the bluegrass/fescue rough, we didn't take them out as far as we might have otherwise, and we couldn't go wide enough to let the native grasses (which often result in lost balls or unplayable lies) come too close to the fairways.  These fairways are generally 40-45 yards wide, though -- they are certainly not small -- and I can't imagine that Clear Creek really has much more fairway area than Tumble Creek.

P.S. to David:  That fairway line on the left of #1 looks the way it does because there was a road along the left side of the hole during construction.

Tom

Using this course as an example, is it the case that the fairways don't come out to the bunkers to help give shape to the fairways?  Was there any thought that if the fairways came out that the curling fairway lines would be lost - especially on the holes which seem to follow ridges?

Looking at the greens again I like them even more.  It looks like the ground game is severely tested in that one has to get the right pace of a grounder or it will tail off short of greens and into trouble.  I don't get much of a sense of what is long, is there generally less or more trouble long?

Ciao

[Peter Ferlicca]

Ok now for the back nine pics


Hole 10 Par 4 (430 yards)  This is a cool hole where the top of the flag is just barely visible way out the right around the cliff edge.  If you bomb your drive over the bunkers you have a better line in


Here is the view of 11 green from 10 tee





Hole 11 Par 3 (178 yards)  When the wind in blowing dead into you this is quite a tough shot. 



The view around when you are on the green is amazing, you can see a lot of the back nine. 




Hole 12 Par 4 (410 yards)  A sharp dogleg right that goes straight downhill on the approach shot


You have a blind approach over the bunker if you don’t hit it that well off the tee





Hole 13 Par 3 (168 yards)  A slightly downhill par 3 that has a 3 shelf green, a lot of possible hole in one locations.






Hole 14 Par 5 (575 yards)  A downhill downwind par 5 that is easily reachable, the best line off the tee is just to the right of the fairway bunker.


Here is a spare tee to make a sweet 475 yard par 4






Hole 15 Par 5 (485 yards)  This hole is too short to be a par 5, it plays downwind and I haven’t had anything longer than an 8 iron into this par 5, IMO they should just play it as a par 4 from the 455 tee, and make it a par 70.







Hole 16 Par 4 (410 yards)  I LOVE the look of this tee shot, the way the fairways bends, and the bunkers are awesome looking on this hole.  The approach reminds me a lot of a winged foot approach with the raised green.








Hole 17 Par 3 (220 yards)  This hole is growing on me more and more.  The green has four different shelves with two bowls being front left and back right.  With bunkers all around, you better pull off a good shot.  Also a great view of cle elum river from the tee.






Hole 18 Par 4 (480 yards)  What a great finishing hole, swings to the left and then goes way uphill.  I just love how it bends uphill and finishes with a fun green.  When the pin is in the front bowl, you can hole out your second shot.  I have already seen a member hole out for an eagle. 

[Mike Hendren]

I forgot about the design of the 10th.  As the photograph depicts the left-hand greenside bunker is surprisingly - not greenside.  As seen from behind the green there is a nice kick-plate maintained as fairway that allows the shorter hitter an opportunity to challenge that bunker and have his mid to long iron approach be directed at the pin. 

I don't understand why this feature isn't utilized more often and if I recall correctly, Gil Hanse utilized it at the 10th hole at the Capstone Club.

Mike

[Dan Herrmann]

It's really beautiful - congratulations!

PS - Did you know that Roslyn is the town where they filmed the Northern Exposure TV show back in the 80's?  Cool little town.

[Carl Nichols]

So many great courses, so little time. . . .

Thanks for the pics!