PGA Tour affect on green contouring

[Jeff_Brauer]

Had an interesting theory discussion recently.

Basically, the PGA Tour now puts pins 9' foot from edges. I am sure clubs everywhere are following suit.

But, most gca's have spent years basically bringing rolling edges of green surrounds on to the green itself, for at least 10-15 feet.  The Tour now thinks that green edges ought to be flattened out, with maybe the middle of greens having more humps.....but not many players like domed greens either.  Add in speeds of 12+ and we get either really big greens, if we can afford them, or flatter greens with very few rolls anywhere, if and when most courses adopt the closer to edge pins as standard.

Thoughts?

[Tim Nugent]

Since most clubs won't ever have the Tour stopping by, let them pin whereever they wish, but I'm not changing how I go about tying greens into the surrounds. With ample amounts of other challenging pin placements, if they want to pretend they are on Tour, let them, it's their course and if they want really, really hard pins, at least they have the option.  Flattening out everything only removes more of the reason they are pinning the edges (to make it more challenging).  Can't have your cake and eat it too!

[Adam Clayman]

PGA Tour's underlying justification is revenue driven. If the rest of the world wants to follow suit, without fully understanding why 'they do what they do', so be it. Just don't expect anyone that has the ability to think for themselves to extoll the virtues of what is ultimately soul less design.

[Chris Flamion]

I have noticed more how the average golfer views humps and bumps in the green.  I have played a number of rounds with people from "smaller" courses than my own muni that are blown away at some of the green contours.  I have even heard a few say that they were unfair because if you were on the wrong side of the green from the pin it would be an almost impossible putt. 

While I do notice that so few pins are real close to the edge of the green, I think average golfers are more expecting less severe slopes on the green because they don't seem very large on TV(except Augusta).

[Tim Nugent]

Chris - that is a pretty fair assessment of the way a majority of golfers see it.  To them, just getting on the green should give them a makable putt.  In favt, the only time I really see edges of green pinned is when the green is small and/or old and has slopes too steep for todays speeds in an effort to try to find easier putts (or should I say easier misses?)

A 50' putt up and over a +2' roll down to a -2' pin across a 4% side slope - thus requiring perfect speed on top of hitting the perfect spot atop the ridge some 20' above the direct line - is a bit too demanding for most, especially since anything beyond perfection in speed AND line results in a 10'+ min.  second putt - which they will probably miss too!

Although I'm sure a majority here would relish it and exclaim what "great fun" it was.

I just did a huge 11,500 sf "double-wide" green on a medium 4 at a club.  Think of 2 - 6,000 sf greens side-by-side, like an cell dividing, with an "easy side" and a "hard side".  A huge Oak dictated that the middle back be pinched in and a hollow be created to make grade work.  I purposely sloped the rear 12" of the green back, around the hullow so one could putt around to the low from deep left to deep right by using that curved slope.

Imagine my surprise when a grouchy member cornered me one day in the clubhouse to bend my ear on "How Unfair" that "Ridiculous" green was!  "Hell, you can't even get from one side to the other without Chipping! - yada yada ydad." 

He was pretty pissed when I suggested he try a putter and stalked off when I offered a $100 bet that I could get it from anywhere to anywhere on that green he chooses, by putting.