National Golf Links of America (revised)

[Tom Birkert]

The look on their face, and the words from their mouths are interesting, when they see their ball come to a dead stop, because an almost imperceptible upslope rises out of the valley made by the downslope and front of the green.

Pat,

That sounds very similar to the 1st at Oakmont, though if memory serves the slope is not as severe on 2 at NGLA as it is at Oakmont.

Obviously it helps when one has a 40/50 yard shot compared to the 180 yard shot at Oakmont!

It's a wonderful feature which encourages all sorts of different approach shots and rewards precision when playing the chosed shot.

[Bill_McBride]

JME & Bill,

You're right, I think the 6th hole was the last hole described.
It's on my agenda, it's just on the back burner.

Your fans await, breathlessly.   

[jkinney]

Tom,

An old friend of mine, Joe McBride, an exceptional golfer and a great guy, showed me dozens and dozens of ways to play shots at NGLA.   Shots that you wouldn't think of in the normal course of play.

I think that unique quality ties into something that Rees Jones told me years ago.
He said that everytime he visits NGLA he picks up new subtleties in the architecture.

When I combine what Joe McBride showed me with what Rees told me it seems to indicate that repeat play/local knowledge can be huge factors in navigating yourself around the golf course.

I deliberately asked Chip Gaskins how he would play a little approach shot into # 2 when the hole is located near the front of the green.

When conditions are firm and fast, and they can get really firm and fast at NGLA, and when the wind is up, knowing how to play a variety of shots into those greens, or recovering to those greens can present a far more difficult challenge than meets the eye.

I've watched golfers try to use the downslope on their approach into # 2.
I've seen them try to bump and run the shot.
Often, it hits the downslope and takes off, either over the green or to the back of the green leaving them a long putt.
I've seen guys hit a little flop wedge short of the green, hoping to bounce it on, close to the front hole location.
The look on their face, and the words from their mouths are interesting, when they see their ball come to a dead stop, because an almost imperceptible upslope rises out of the valley made by the downslope and front of the green.

That type of subtlety goes unnoticed unless you've experienced or witnessed those shots and the results.

There are so many greens, like # 7, # 12, # 15 and others that can frustrate the unknowing golfer with his approach and recovery shots.

Joe McBride used to drive opponents crazy with his dazzling, unique play.

One story revolves around a golfer who became a PGA Tour player.
He was a great player, almost having won the U.S. Open.
He was long, hit great irons and had a great touch.  He would outdrive Joe by substantial distances.
You don't make and stay on the PGA Tour by not being a great player.
Joe killed him at NGLA and Joe was not a young man, but, he was a very good player and knew all the nuances of NGLA.

As I said, he showed me shots I never would have thought of, but, they worked amazingly well at NGLA.

As I think about it, like Seminole, I think you have to stay away from the perimeters of the greens at NGLA, but, when the holes are located close to the perimeter, it presents a real dilema for the golfer.

Patrick - Love it when you bring up Joe McBride, that grand fellow. It must have been George Burns that he whipped at National. George became a member in '75 when he was a Walker Cup player and was for many years the only PGA Tour member of National until Raymond Floyd was taken in a few years after winning the '86 Open at Shinny. It was at Merion in '81 where George Burns had the 54 hole lead and finished 2nd to a perfect final round by David Graham. George could really play, but he was tall and had a narrow stance and drew the ball with a high trajectory. In the wind at National I can see Joe keeping the ball close to the ground and beating George.

You've been away from the "Enchanted Journey" postings far too long. I've been waiting on "St. Andrews" tee for a year now. It's two in the afternoon on qualifying day for the Singles, and the smokey sou'wester is up and in my face at a steady 10 knots. A beautiful sunny afternoon it is. It's your honor, as you've just holed a 12' birdie putt after having feathered a wedge down under the following wind to the lower right hole placement on "Short". Now show me the perfect drive here on "St. Andrews".............

[Patrick_Mucci]

JKinney,

It was George.  I didn't want to mention his name since I'll be having dinner with him on Saturday night.

Joe donated the bell tower and bell that sits behind the 3rd green at NGLA.

He was another one of those special people who comprised the "Greatest Generation"

I'll try to get to the 7th hole by this weekend.

For a green without substantive slope and/or contour, the green on # 7 has to be one of the all time great greens in golf.

[Bill_McBride]

I was hoping Joe McBride was a relative but I guess not..........

[jkinney]

Patrick - Say hello to George for me. As to "St. Andrews " green , terrifying it is indeed. But we've got three shots before we get there, all fascinating in their own right, so let's not get ahead of ourselves......

[Bill Brightly]

OK, I at the risk of sounding a little "gay"...I was taking a hot yoga class today in an effort to help my golf swing flexibility as I age...So the instructor (who is smokin hot ) says "think of a person that makes you happy and focus on that while you practice..." Well, I couldnt think of of a person that make me happy...so I focused on National!!!

[TEPaul]

"OK, I at the risk of sounding a little "gay"...I was taking a hot yoga class today in an effort to help my golf swing flexibility as I age...So the instructor (who is smokin hot  ) says "think of a person that makes you happy and focus on that while you practice..." Well, I couldnt think of of a person that make me happy...so I focused on National!!!"


Bill: 


It seems like there is something out there these days for every kind of addiction under the sun, so with all these sex addiction clinics and such I've been hearing about lately I'm sure you can find a good one for sexual addiction to famous golf courses. You may want to take Pat Mucci with you. Technically he's not sexually addicted to golf courses but he does have some weird transferance thing going on----where, when he sees a golf hole he really likes he actually sees a beautiful woman somehow.

[JMEvensky]

I was hoping Joe McBride was a relative but I guess not..........

I was rooting for you.

[Kyle Henderson]

NGLA has long resided at the top of my wish list, but its position has been firmly locked in by these stunning pictures and the accounts of Long John Spaulding. Thankfully, we west coasters an "settle" for a round at Old Mac when time and $$$ allow, but I'm sure the real thing must be tasted once in every serious golfer's lifetime, along with the lobster lunch!

Thanks for posting the photos, Mr. Gaskins! Looks like you had great weather conditions. Pavlovian slobber fills my key booard.

[Patrick_Mucci]

OK, I at the risk of sounding a little "gay"...I was taking a hot yoga class today in an effort to help my golf swing flexibility as I age...So the instructor (who is smokin hot ) says "think of a person that makes you happy and focus on that while you practice..." Well, I couldnt think of of a person that make me happy...so I focused on National!!!

Bill,

There must be something wrong with you.

If I had a fitness/yoga instructor who was a women who was "smokin hot" and she asked me to think of a person that makes me happy, she would have been amongst the first chosen.

And you couldn't even think of her ?
Not even one fantasy ?

And, you chose NGLA instead ?

I think there's room for you at Happydale Farms.

I can have you committed within a week, and, if available, you can have the room next to TEPaul, even though he's been reserving it for Coorshaw, Ben and Bill.

[Richard Choi]

This thread has turned a very strange and disturbing corner...

[TEPaul]

To Pat and others, I can sure attest to the fact that the man he mentioned, Joe McBride, was a truly wonderful and interesting man with a whole lot of good stuff to impart to those younger. And he had a wonderful family that all seemed to rock and roll so well together. To me he was always a breath of fresh air simply because he was so friendly and easy and that was pretty different from some of those other autocrats I knew out there back in the old days.

I even distinctly remember the last time I saw him. I think I might've been with Bill Sallinetti or Matt Burrows and we came right up on him on the 9th fairway right after he hit a shot. I think we surprised him but he had that nice smile and twinkle in his eye and some interesting stuff to say. And then we were off and out of his way.

But it sure never does occur to you at the time, does it, that that might be the last time you will ever see the man?

[Bill Brightly]

 Pat,

I do know how to multi-task...give me some credit

[Chip Gaskins]

I deliberately asked Chip Gaskins how he would play a little approach shot into # 2 when the hole is located near the front of the green.

Pat-

I missed you question somehow.  You should make it more clear, maybe use different colors on your responses or something!

Anyway, if I had anything inside of 50 yards, which is where my tee shots have landed on this 320 yard hole in firm and fast conditions, I would simply putt it down to a front pin.  Though I may not be able to get it close to the pin by putting it I doubt I could do any better pitching it, or floping it for all the reasons you state.  With that said, I would just take par and move on.  I realize a player wants to make birdie on a 330 yard hole, and making birdie can be tricky if it is a pin on the edge of the green, but it certainly is not a hole than evokes any kind of fear either.  Again, in an attempt to not over think the hole I simply hit driver as hard as possible at the green and then have a very short shot from there, no matter what I may choose to do at that point its probablya somewhat easy par.  In summation, I missed the delicate nuance of greatness.

You mention your friend, Joe McBride, showing you so many different ways to play a hole at NGLA, I have to admit I played Sebonack the morning I played NGLA in the afternoon and think Sebonack offers many more choices on how to play holes than NGLA, especially around the green.  Maybe I am just an idiot (which at this point you say yes and start typing in colors!)

Chip

[Patrick_Mucci]

Anyway, if I had anything inside of 50 yards, which is where my tee shots have landed on this 320 yard hole in firm and fast conditions, I would simply putt it down to a front pin.  Though I may not be able to get it close to the pin by putting it I doubt I could do any better pitching it, or floping it for all the reasons you state.  With that said, I would just take par and move on.  I realize a player wants to make birdie on a 330 yard hole, and making birdie can be tricky if it is a pin on the edge of the green, but it certainly is not a hole than evokes any kind of fear either. 


It's not intended to invoke fear.
That's not the objective of every hole.
IMO, I think one of the functions of # 2 is to present a unique form of challenge, and in this case, it's to place, within the mind of the golfer that the golfer should expect a birdie, perhaps an eagle, settle begrudgingly for a par and be revolted by a bogey or worse, especially this early in the round.

The hole also presents other challenges.

When the air is heavy, and the wind in your face, reaching the fairway at the optimum angle is a chore.
Determining what the optimum angle is has gotten more difficult since they removed Don King's hair.

If you think it's an easy par, try missing the green down into the right side hollow with a back or far left pin, or even a far right pin.
Par may be relatively easy, with benign hole locations, when you hit the center of the fairway, but, when you miss that fairway, par may be far more difficult than you think.

Again, in an attempt to not over think the hole I simply hit driver as hard as possible at the green and then have a very short shot from there, no matter what I may choose to do at that point its probably a somewhat easy par. 

Again, that's probably true, IF you hit the fairway, but, that's not always an easy task.

In summation, I missed the delicate nuance of greatness.

Repeat play would help you recognize it.

You mention your friend, Joe McBride, showing you so many different ways to play a hole at NGLA, I have to admit I played Sebonack the morning I played NGLA in the afternoon and think Sebonack offers many more choices on how to play holes than NGLA, especially around the green.  Maybe I am just an idiot (which at this point you say yes and start typing in colors!)

I can't speak to your powers of observation.
Perhaps you're referencing the obvious options and missed the subtle options.
Could you list for me the options involved in playing # 8 at Sebonack ?
# 17 ? 

[Jay Flemma]

Is that you in the Road bunker Chip? How did you do? My partner got his up and down! (He freaked out when he saw his ball, I had to calm him down, then he hit it to 8 feet and made the putt! )

I also made a sandie out of the road hole bunker:)

I look forward to playing it this spring with temps warmer than the 44 degrees last October!

[TEPaul]

"I have to admit I played Sebonack the morning I played NGLA in the afternoon and think Sebonack offers many more choices on how to play holes than NGLA, especially around the green."



Chip:

If that is true, it would be totally glorious. I certainly don't say it isn't true because I have no idea at all---I've only seen Sebonak, once, never played it, as I have NGLA many times----but this is our hope, and this is the way we all want to see golf and golf architecture move into the future. Onward and Upward, and never fear to be better than ever and better in the future than even the best of the past at their best!!

[Bill Brightly]

If I am reading this correctly, the current elevated 17th tee is new? So I guess the old tee was to the right and lower, directly behind the 16th green?

Was this a more challenging angle?

[Kevin Pallier]

I have to admit I played Sebonack the morning I played NGLA in the afternoon and think Sebonack offers many more choices on how to play holes than NGLA, especially around the green.

Chip

On my one viewing of both courses - I would think quite the opposite tack. I would have thought the bump'n'run option was more prevalent at NGLA ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

If I am reading this correctly, the current elevated 17th tee is new?


That is INCORRECT.

The current 17th tee dates back to at least 1928.

So I guess the old tee was to the right and lower, directly behind the 16th green?

There is another tee, a shorter tee, to the right, behind the 16th green.
It's fun to play the hole from there from time to time.
However, today's equipment probably obsoleted play from that tee.

Was this a more challenging angle?

It can be, but, in general, I would say that the left side tee is generally more challenging due to the length of the carries.