A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #16 Commentary in progress

[Adam Clayman]

Perhaps "Old DoakUrbinaBahtoKlein?".  

(I apologize for leaving someone out if I did!)

Bill, Just change it to Ol' and you've got Karl Olson covered.

[Tom Jefferson]

Jim;

This debate you're having..............who is it with??
Just askin!

Tom

[Tim Bert]

Mike we debated the 1 thread vs 18 threads last time and not coincidentally I think you were one of the guys leading the charge. Did you just copy and paste your post from the Pacific Dunes thread? 

I started taking votes last time and that derailed the thread so I made the executive decision to keep it as one.  While I do like the idea of being able to weigh in in any given hole at any time, I don't like the idea of the threads running in active mode concurrently. I like to focus on one hole at a time. It also makes it easier to find the thread in a search and provides one nice consolidated location for the entire course tour.

I am open to considering separate threads if what Jim is going to bring to the table is going to make each of these threads self-sustaining. I'd like to see what he has in mind for his contributions and get his thoughts on one thread vs eighteen. After that, the benevolent dictator will determine the feasibility of 18 threads.

[George Pazin]

Yummy...I think you crashed the site!

[Tim Bert]

Yummy...I think you crashed the site!

I was worried for a while. 

The site coming back up after a day long down period is always like that first peek of the sun coming through the clouds after a spring rain storm.  People slowly start to poke their heads outside, realize it is going to be ok, and then before you know it the street is bustling with activity.

[Morgan Clawson]

Tim,

Thanks for this thread.  I love the slow roll through the course.

Jim U,

Any "anatomy" info you want to add hear would be fantastic!

[Mike Benham]

Mike we debated the 1 thread vs 18 threads last time and not coincidentally I think you were one of the guys leading the charge. Did you just copy and paste your post from the Pacific Dunes thread? 

Just once I beg you to try it, perhaps you can when you do the "A Fan's Photo Tribute to Sheep Ranch - Hole #?"

[Mike Cirba]

Tim,

I'm excited to take this journey.   Thanks for the time you're putting into this.

[Peter Pallotta]

Yup, Mike - on this little team of ours, Tim is proving himself the home run king!

Great work, Tim. 

Peter 

[Pete_Pittock]

It looks like the hidden bunker back left of the green is the gathering type with the speed slot between the two plateaus aimed at it. Font left mesa the most difficult? Front left hole would mean the best angle would be for a drive hit over the right side fairway bunker. One difficulty of this hole is you don't know what bounce you will get on the green, and an agressive shot may get a 20+ pitchback.  

Tim,
Can we post pictures of the hole de jour if it shows a different architectural perspective?

[Ed Oden]

JC:

I thought it was the ideal green to start off with because we could make the tee shot relatively easy and you'd still be left with some work to do.   Plus, someone familiar with Macdonald or Raynor might not see what is the inspiration for the hole when they stand on the tee, but as soon as they walk up to the green, they will know.

Tom, I have always liked the opening hole at Yeamans Hall for this exact reason.  There seem to be a number of similarities.  Coincidence?

[Tim Bert]

Pete and others - I am just the tour guide. I will decide when to change holes and I will kick each hole off with my photos and comments. Beyond that everything is fair game. The more pictures the better as I certainly didn't capture everything I wanted in one day.

[Phil McDade]

Tim:

Just my two cents -- a request/plea to keep as one thread. I enjoy looking through the (enhanced -- the lone improvement in the new website!) search engine for old threads -- sometimes for threads of my own, and sometimes just to revist courses in the news or discussed here.

Thanks for this -- OM has zoomed to the top of my must-see-one-day courses.

[Ian_L]

Thanks Tim for what promises to be another great thread. I would love to see the "anatomy" of each golf hole as well. Additionally, I'd be very interested to hear firsthand accounts of how each hole has been played so far, including successes and mishaps.  Can't wait to play there soon.

[Bill_McBride]

JC:

I thought it was the ideal green to start off with because we could make the tee shot relatively easy and you'd still be left with some work to do.   Plus, someone familiar with Macdonald or Raynor might not see what is the inspiration for the hole when they stand on the tee, but as soon as they walk up to the green, they will know.

Tom, I have always liked the opening hole at Yeamans Hall for this exact reason.  There seem to be a number of similarities.  Coincidence?

Yale and Mountain Lake both open with Double Plateau greens.  Look easy, play hard.

[Darren Gloster]

Tim,

I have debated since the end of last year if I should do a " Anatomy of a golf hole" on each hole hole with sketches and written text. 

Your coverage of each hole and how it played has a general interest among some loyalists.  I am wandering if somebody would like to know how each hole evolved and certain trials and tribulations played out?

Yes plllllllllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaasssssssssssseeeeeeeee.

One of the best parts of the revised version of Dream Golf, was the exchange about the potential for the burn on #17.

It would be great to compare what you had in mind compared to how our group played holes.

[Tom_Doak]

Kelly:

The bunker short and right of the green is well short of it ... 20 to 30 yards short.  It's there to complicate the hole for someone thinking about driving the green if it is playing downwind.  I guess if the wind was howling, you wouldn't want to land too far past it on a second shot to a front right hole location, but in normal play it wouldn't have much effect ... even if I did dump a pitch shot in there after a perfect drive one day.

[George_Bahto]

the right side greenside hazard




this was taken from abot were the first tee is

[George_Bahto]

again - 1st tee - setting the post (in the background Tom was burning down/clearing the proposed course

[Paul Richards]

Old Mac is the real deal.

I rate it best of the four courses at Bandon.


Here is my list:

1 - Old Mac
2a- Pacific
2b - Bandon
2c - Bandon Trails


Frankly, it is hard to discern how any of them is better than the others!!!

They are all excellent.
 

[JC Urbina]

Tim,

After further review I have decided not to include the " Anatomy of a golf hole".  Your essay deserves not to be cluttered by STUFF so I will add tid-bits from time to time  if you don't mind as you go along.

You saw some pictures from George Bahto and how the first tee looked after some initial clearing.  I have a lot of before and after pictures and some sketches that I have used in my power point presentation Creating Old Macdonald.  It would be very time consuming to try and post pictures on top of your Fan Tribute so I have decided to go in another direction with that idea.

In the fall of 2006 the view looking north from the first tee was a sea of 10/15 foot high Gorse, with a few shrubs and stunted pine trees mixed in.
On my first trip to show the clearing crew where to go, I simply pointed North to the crew from the spot Bahto shows on the picture.  Somewhere out there I told Troy Russell is a few golf holes we have to create.

 I was scribbling one day on the routing map thinking about the first hole, it shows what I thought the first green and approach could look like.  It was sketched on the bottom corner of the routing map showing a ball trajectory coming over a feature on the right side on a long drive or a second shot bounding down to a two level green.  It sat in the front dash of the site truck for many months in plane view so I could stare at it from time to time.

  Fast forward to June 1, 2010 and the first hole is officially opened.  Finally a vision by many people came to reality YEARS after an idea started by Mike Keiser was first hatched.  My sketch is but 1/32 of what  goes into the final product.  The first hole actually took over a year to build. It was the first hole we were going to build in my preliminary schedule I submitted to Mike.  It ended up being one of the last.  Good planning??

[Rob Rigg]

It really would be fascinating to see a photo journal taking the viewer from what a site (or even better - a hole) looked like pre-construction - through the process - to final product.

The photos above are very cool - while we all comment on final product on GCA - most of us "armchair" archies have no idea how a site goes from a bunch of trees, dunes, gorse, swamp, and so on - to final product.

Finding 18 holes on the land is obviously not an easy task - I know I forget that at times.

[Matt_Ward]

Tim:

Thanks for posting the pics.

When I played the hole the prevailing summer wind was in full force -- I took aim at the bunker complex ont he left -- figuring that with a 20 mph wind in my face getting into the bunker would not happen. I was correct. I was fortunate that the pin was not on the front left plateau and as Tom D mentioned the back right pin doesn't seem to be used as per Mike Keiser's wishes.

No doubt when the winter wind blows I think the really fun part of the hole becomes even more the case. Then the player has to decide how far to try to go -- driving the ball near the green then becomes a real option for the stronger player.

With the summer wind in your face -- that option is not the case.

Hitting a crips approach to the target is crucial and it serves a guide for all the other greens you will be facing that day. A good opener that allows different flexibility and options for most player types.

[George_Bahto]

Bob - we have a lot of pictures pre and during construction - I know I do and Jim does as well

we can and will share "some" of them from time to time given they fit into the conversations and thoughts on the subject at the time

Tim, I agree it might be more intesting to do rather than have all the thoughts and pictures mixed together

[RJ_Daley]

For those of us that may not get there for some time, I'm sure many are really looking forward to this series by Tim B.  And Jim, I'd run right out and buy that sort of book.  How does one get to see your powerpoint demo?  Where or to whom are you showing it?  A DVD would be nice!!!

AS for commentary on #1, I'd ask what the thoughts were on the left side FW to rough mowing line.  It seems to me that a straight line is a visual not often seen on Renaissance golf designs.  Am I wrong about that?