Old Macdonald Voted Best of Bandon

[Sean_A]

It comes down to personal preference and personal history.  If one doesn't have a history of regularly playing in a windy environment, one's first encounter of Pebble Beach or Bandon Dunes can be quite jarring, if you get a day with winds over 30 m.p.h.  It is truly amazing what can happen to a golf ball with a little side spin in a big wind.  If you're not used to it, the wind can really get inside your head and affect your enjoyment of the golf course.  In the three trips that I've taken to Bandon Dunes, I would say that a decent percentage of my companions come away wondering if they could handle a steady diet of golf atop such a windy bluff.  It can get dispiriting if one doesn't adjust by hitting lower shots and trying to avoid side spin.  Let's face it, the people who come to this site are ardent ground game afficionados, but we are decidedly in the minority here in the States.  When the typical retail golfer in the US talks glowingly about the difficulty in a golf course, he is usually talking length, hazards and green speeds, not the wind.  I try to gently remind my inland golf buddies that they built the fairways wide enough to easily accommodate a 20-25 m.p.h. wind, but it is difficult to get that message across to a golfer who has just been humiliated by the elements.  I'm sure this is mostly an American phenomenon.  I can't imagine the UK golfer getting all that distracted or distressed by the fan!

Terry

Many UK golfers get bugged by wind because they play in it so often; a calm day is relished.  I personally don't like it when the wind gets up into the 20s range because a great many courses don't really accomodate that sort of wind- 10 to 15 is just fine especially as I play most of my golf in the winter.  That said, I can hitem' as low as anybody!!

Ciao

[Mike Hendren]

I remember when we were getting ready to open Pacific Dunes, I spoke in a couple of interviews how the course was designed with the wind in mind, and Mr. Keiser asked me not to talk about the wind, because he thought it scared the retail golfer away.

Tom, I'm intrigued by your use of the term "retail golfer."  Please elaborate.

Mike

[Terry Lavin]

I remember when we were getting ready to open Pacific Dunes, I spoke in a couple of interviews how the course was designed with the wind in mind, and Mr. Keiser asked me not to talk about the wind, because he thought it scared the retail golfer away.

Tom, I'm intrigued by your use of the term "retail golfer."  Please elaborate.

Mike

I'll take a stab at this one, Bogey.  Mike Keiser is the guy who came up with this phrase.  I believe he uses it to describe ardent golfers who will put their money where their mouth is and travel to distant destinations to play great public access golf and pay good money to do it.  It is not meant in any pejorative way.  The retail guys are the guys who gladly spend the money for great product.

[Ted Cahill]

Last year I teed off at Pacific in 25mph wind and sideways hail.  We were a threesome and  everyone was excited to play.  It was the most extreme weather I have ever played in.  I commented that we were like alcoholics in a bar at 9am.  The conditions made the round that much more interesting.  The course never got wet and stayed playable- and by the 7th hole the sun was out and we were peeling off our rain gear.  I recall this round more fondly than the sunny rounds I have played at Bandon.  Those courses are entirely designed to handle strong conditions, the question is- is the golfer?

[Rob Miller]

How can playing a course at Bandon in the morning in calm conditions and then playing the same course in the afternoon with the wind knocking you around not be anything but fun? 

I'd be surprised if many people make the pilgrimage and then are turned off of the resort because of the variable weather conditions.  It's part of what makes that property and the experience so special.

[Adam Clayman]

I'm curious if the aspects that the retail golfer prefers are part and parcel of OM? Or was the design team given a wee bit more freedom since its an homage to CB, someone who worked before retail was a consideration.  

[Terry Lavin]

I'm curious if the aspects that the retail golfer prefers are part and parcel of OM? Or was the design team given a wee bit more freedom since its an homage to CB, someone who worked retail was a consideration.  

I can't help but believe that the entire team used the institutional knowledge that has been developed at Bandon Dunes when coming up with their plans for Old Macdonald.  If that means that they took the feelings of the retail golfers that have played over the years, I think that's only appropriate.  It seems reasonable that the architects and others working on the project took into account those aspects of the other three courses that seemed to work with their customers and critics.  I am quite confident that this sort of thought process would not in any way "dumb down" the project, but rather would give them a comfort level that David Kidd and Mike Keiser probably didn't have when they first started whacking at the gorse in the building of the first golf course.

[Jud_T]

whacking at the gorse


You can go a lot of different ways with this statement...

[Richard Choi]

So, is it true that Mike and the architects will be there at the first tee to greet all the players on the opening day?

[Mark Arata]

They did for the opening of Bandon Trails....... was pretty cool. They gave out a nice medallion and picture of your foursome as well.

[Jim Franklin]

I am scheduled to play OM in August and I can't wait. I am surprised however, that so many people already crown it best at Bandon. (Not that it isn't). I have found that most of my good golfing friends don't get NGLA, don't care about Redans, Alps, Double Plateaus, or any of the cool designs of the past. Most of these guys want a good hospitality station, green fairways, and true rolling greens and that is it. Anything that takes imagination is useless.

The course sounds all world to me and I cannot wait until August.

[Tom_Doak]

I will be there on June 1st, but I doubt that I will stand at the first tee all day.  When we did the opening for Pacific Dunes, I was there for the first few groups, but after that I wandered out onto the course and sat and watched people play various holes to see how the ball reacted when it landed.  I imagine I will do the same for Old Macdonald ... forecaddying at #3 for a while, watching play around #6 green, and certainly sitting on the tee at the Redan watching play on #12 and #13.  Those are probably the two holes I'm most interested to watch, since I've seen plenty of play on the original ten holes.

[jeffwarne]

I have found that most of my good golfing friends don't get NGLA, don't care about Redans, Alps, Double Plateaus, or any of the cool designs of the past. Most of these guys want a good hospitality station, green fairways, and true rolling greens and that is it. Anything that takes imagination is useless.

If that were true, why would anyone make the trek and pay the prices at bandon?
I think the success of Bandon illustrates golfers aren't as dumb as we think

[Joe Bentham]

panoramic looking down from 14th tee yesterday afternoon.  Played Old Mac in 3 hours and wanted more when I was done. http://wp.me/pVda6-3a

[Rob Miller]

Tom,

I'll be off at 8:50 on opening day. Apologies in advance for not providing good feedback (unless of course you're looking for the lefty slice).

I'm guessing that all four Bandon courses in one day may not be possible.    No reason not to try though...

[Jim Hoak]

I played Old MacDonald with a group of men last Oct.--actually we just played the 10 holes that were open then.  We were all very surprised and impressed.  Most of us still liked Pacific Dunes better, but not by much.  I would say that the bunkering at OM was slightly less impressive than that at PD--I am still amazed at the blow-out bunkers at Pacific that are perfectly placed and look like they have been there for centuries.  But in any case, when OM opens fully on June 1--and matures over the next few years--it is going to be a great course.  I have been to Bandon Dunes 4-5 times, and just when I though I'd been there enough, a new reason to go back happens.

[Jim Franklin]

Does anyone know the aerification schedule for Bandon? I would hate to show up this August only to find out the course had just been punched.

[Joe Bentham]

Does anyone know the aerification schedule for Bandon? I would hate to show up this August only to find out the course had just been punched.

IT IS definitely not in August....

[JC Jones]

panoramic looking down from 14th tee yesterday afternoon.  Played Old Mac in 3 hours and wanted more when I was done. http://wp.me/pVda6-3a

Joe,

Did you take this picture with one of those new Sony sweep panoramics?  They look really intriguing and cool for pics of golf courses.

[Richard Choi]

15 days and counting... not sure how I am going to last... my productivity is going down the toilet...

[Jud_T]

By the way, does anyone know if the Sheep Ranch is closed every summer?

[Joe Bentham]

panoramic looking down from 14th tee yesterday afternoon.  Played Old Mac in 3 hours and wanted more when I was done. http://wp.me/pVda6-3a

Joe,

Did you take this picture with one of those new Sony sweep panoramics?  They look really intriguing and cool for pics of golf courses.

Nope, just my old 8.1 digital camera and stitched a couple of pictures together with an Microsoft ICE program that is free.  Really easy to use 

[corey miller]

I played in the just completed Macdonald Cup, or was it the "Old Macdonald Cup"?   The event was won by Piping Rock.  At the dinner Friday night, after most attendees had played Old Mcdonald three times, Mike Keiser asked informally about the preferred course at the resort and received a response similiar to that of Terry's group.

[Terry Lavin]

I played in the just completed Macdonald Cup, or was it the "Old Macdonald Cup"?   The event was won by Piping Rock.  At the dinner Friday night, after most attendees had played Old Mcdonald three times, Mike Keiser asked informally about the preferred course at the resort and received a response similiar to that of Terry's group.

Interesting.  I'm guessing that the players are a well-traveled golfing crowd?  There are some upcoming outings that will be fun to hear from, including the two groups from gca and the golfweek raters.  I'm guessing that we'll have a pretty good early consensus within thirty days of the official opening of the course on June 1.  I'll predict that Old Mac will be viewed as the favorite course of most, with some of that being the result of being the new girl on the coast, but it may be hard to argue the point if group after group comes to this conclusion in the early going.

[Joe Bentham]

all right so I've been around Old Mac as much as anyone and still don't feel as if it fair to do this but here is Old Mac vs. Pacific Dunes, match play:

Hole 1-Old Mac up 1, although not by as wide a margin as maybe others would have it.
Hole 2-All square, Pacific dunes really introduces herself here
Hole 3-All square, push.  #3 at Old Mac's fun level is enough to push Pac #3's beauty
hole 4-Pac up 1, #4 at Old Mac's fun level isn't enough to overcome #4 at Pac's setting...
hole 5-Pac up 2, while Short is a sporty par 3, and will be a bear most days into a big right to left cross breeze #5 at Pac is just that good.
Hole 6-Pac up 3, #6 at Pac is the best short par 4 on property.
Hole 7-Pac up 3, push.  #7 at Old Mac's green setting is as good as #7 at Pac
Hole 8-Pac up 2, I love #8 at Pac but I think the green at #8 at Old Mac might be one of most iconic moments on the whole course.
Hole 9-Pac up 1, another really close call and I think I might have given Old Mac the nod because of what is to come.
Hole 10-Pac up 2, close as it can be and bottle is a blast but I don't think it takes much explaining.
Hole 11-Pac up 3, maybe not as close as it should be.
hole 12-Pac up 2, played into the wind yesterday #12 at OM was a hammered 3 wood, down wind its been 5-6 irons.  
Hole 13-Pac up 3, is there another hazard in the world that distracts you from the Pacific ocean like the dune on the right of #13 at Pac does?
Hole 14-Pac up 4, after you've played 10-13 at Pac into a big wind the hardest shot on the course might be the softie you have to hit from the 14th tee box.
Hole 15-Pac up 3, Westward Ho! at OM is really fun and recent gorse removal at #15 at Pacific has softened my affection for that hole.
Hole 16-Pac up 2, maybe the toughest call of the match.  I love short par 4's and #16 at Pacific is a great hole but how much fun is it to come around or over the hill at OM's Alps hoping that your ball is close?  Too much to overcome.
Hole 17-Pacific Dunes closes out the match here 3 & 1 although Littlestone is an interesting 5par.  I seen someone try and make his opponent play off the road/cart path that bisects #17 at OM in a match this weekend.
Hole 18 would also go to Pacific Dunes.

I'm not a fan of comparing golf courses, but I think these two will inevitably be compared and contrasted for as long as they are played.  I don't think OM suffers from not having the right 'on the Ocean' moments that Pacific has.  In fact OM has more Ocean moments then many golf courses that claim to be seaside.  You can see, feel and smell the ocean on much of your round at OM.  Only in direct comparison to Pacific Dunes does OM fall a little short in this department.
I am also amazed daily at how different they are.  The scale at OM is really big.  Everyone has heard about the green sizes and it starts there but the hazards and fairways are huge.  And many of the views at OM are of an epic scale.
Pacific Dunes has epic views for sure but it also has smaller moments and more off and ebb and flow in its routing.  Neither is superior IMO, just different.  
Tom Doak, Jim Urbina and team should be commended for building golf courses on similar property so close together that are so different IMO.