News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Old Macdonald Voted Best of Bandon
« on: May 07, 2010, 12:14:56 PM »
I just returned from a three-day trip to Bandon Dunes with a group of 60 Western Golf Association (WGA) Directors.  We were accompanied by Mike Keiser and all of us played Old Macdonald on our final day.  When we had finished, a poll was taken and Old Macdonald was voted the Best of Bandon by a 2-1 margin.  Yes, Virginia, it's great, not just good and we just may have an instant classic on our hands.

Before I get to a brief description of the course based on my one round, I have to mention some other aspects of the trip.  First off, we raised over $200,000 for the Evans Scholars Foundation which sends needy caddies to college.  We currently have nearly nine hundred kids in college on full-ride scholarships.  Mike Keiser is a Director of the WGA and Bandon Dunes Resort generously donated all accommodations for our group for the trip.

Mike also organized a panel discussion after our dinner on Wednesday night which was filmed for later use in a short film about the making of Old MacDonald.  Ron Whitten of Golf Digest was the moderator, with Bill Coore and Tom Doak responding to questions about the many pleasures of designing golf courses at the spectacular Bandon Dunes Resort.  There was a lot of discussion with Bill Coore about the routing of Bandon Trails, with the controversial 14th hole figuring prominently in the discussion.  While Coore understands the frustration that many have with the margin of error on that hole's green, he believes that the continuing discussion is some proof that the hole is a good one.  Tom Doak spent a fair amount of time explaining the difference between paying homage to Charles Blair Macdonald and making replica holes.  Both praised Keiser for his long leash during the design and construction process.

Now the new golf course.

Old Macdonald stands as the most prominent example of a public access, 18 hole playing seminar on the history and traditions of golf course architecture.  Its link to National Golf Links is absolutely inescapable.  With the National, Macdonald sought to create a great golf links that would expose America to some of the greatest golf holes from across the pond.  He didn't seek to make replicas of these holes, but rather, he built his own interpretation of them, utilizing his rather soulful approach to golf course architecture to create holes that were very reminiscent of the original models, yet still containing new features that were designed to get people to understand the many mysteries of good architecture.

Tom Doak and his crew of collaborators (Jim Urbina, George Bahto, Brad Klein and Karl Olson) have borrowed from the spirit of Macdonald's educational efforts at the National in their work at Old Macdonald, which has a number of holes that were inspired by holes at National and a handful of others that were built in a style that Macdonald would likely have enjoyed.  In fact, Doak and Coore both mentioned in the interview that Charles Blair Macdonald might not recognize or understand some of the more modern golf courses being built in America these days, but they both thought that Macdonald would enthusiastically endorse the loving homage to his work that is Old Macdonald.  Reading The Evangelist of Golf, Bahto's fabulous study of Macdonald, one is left with the feeling that Macdonald's passion to educate Americans drove his architecture, to our decided benefit.  The same can surely be said of Tom Doak, a design genius whose dirty fingernail approach to the job tends to sublimate his artistry.


The Facts and Figures:  Old Macdonald plays to a par of 34 on the front nine and 37 on the back nine.  This odd calculus should come as no surprise to anybody who follows Doak's work.  One need look no further than the back nine at Pacific Dunes which has four par 3's.  This is a man who works with the land and is not overly focused on making sure that there is a predetermined combination of par 3, 4 and 5 holes.  The yardage total is somewhere around 6900 yards, but the most gob-smacking number of all is the acreage of the greens, which is reported to be over 6 acres.  Having just putted those greens, I can tell you firsthand that they are the biggest set that I've ever seen, with a bunch of fun humps, hillocks and internal contours.  This is a 9 on the fun scale, even if it will surely contribute to some three, four and five putts!

Kevin Pallier posted a terrific photographic thread a month or so ago, so I won't go through all of the holes, but I'll spout a bit about some of my favorites.

#1 Double Plateau.  Tom Doak calls this the best opening hole that he's ever built and its definitely one of the best I've ever played.  The first thing that hits you is the overwhelming majesty of the meadow setting, interrupted by enormous sand dunes, with the specter of the ocean in the distance.  The bunkering offers several lines of attack into the huge double plateau green.  This isn't the hardest opening hole, but you can get in some trouble if you hit a fairway bunker or pick the wrong line into the green.


#3 Sahara.  Tom Doak made good use of the huge dune to create a spectacular Sahara hole, with an imposing tee shot that offers an aggressive line to the left of a huge dead tree or a safer line to the right.  The approach shot to the green at the bottom of the valley is beautiful and imposing.  Spectacular golf hole.

#4 Hog's Back.  This might be the best green on the Bandon Dunes property and it played like one of the toughest as well, at a 500 yard par 4.

#8 Biarritz.  Whoa Nellie, this is one monster green.  With the ocean at your back, you might be tempted to look away from the green, but it is one imposing site.  We played into an east wind and I hit driver to thirty feet.  Very memorable golf hole.

#9 Cape.  An exciting "dry" version of the Cape hole, with brilliantly placed and ominous looking bunkers right and left.

#11 Road.  An inspired version of the Road hole with what looks like a xerox copy of the Road bunker.

#12 Redan.  Perhaps the most copied hole out of Scotland.  This version is simply murderously hard.  Played with the prevailing wind at the player's back, this long par 3 features an extremely difficult green that seems designed to accept a Jack Nicklaus high, hard fade.  Sorry, don't have one!

#13 Leven.  Talk about inspired: this delightful little hole features an enormous hillside that was constructed just to the left of the green.  It looks like it's been there for centuries, but they just built it two years ago.  The presence of the hill does not really influence the putting surface, leading to some "overread" putts.  Magic.

#14 Maiden.  This is a terrific short par 4 hole, with a tee shot that is quite deceptive and a second shot straight up the hill to a testing green.

#16 Alps.  This surely will be a favorite hole for many.  The bunkering and the circuitous fairway eventually lead to a well hidden green.  Ring the bell when you're done, because nobody will see you from the fairway unless they took an aggressive line off the tee.

#18 Punchbowl.  This is a perfect finishing hole for what is pretty much a perfect day of golf, if you ask me.  A long par four that gives the player two routes in between mounds for a running shot into the punchbowl green.

A day at Old Macdonald feeds all the senses.  It also stimulates discussion about architecture and golf history.  It promotes a respect for the game and the men who helped bring the game from Scotland over to the United States.  The fact that an everyday golfer like Mike Keiser was able to envision and create this four golf course masterpiece is truly staggering.

The vote of the WGA Directors is purely anecdotal, but I do believe that Old Macdonald has every chance to be viewed (and rated) as the best golf course at Bandon Dunes.  This is an amazing possibility.  Just think about it.  You buy a couple of parcels of oceanside property.  Nobody in his right mind thinks that even one golf course will be a success.  So what do you do?  Most would think that the developer and architect would cherry-pick the best land for the first course, to the detriment of the others that might follow.  Somehow, Mike Keiser and his band of minimalist architects, David Kidd, Tom Doak, Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw have managed to continually up the ante.  The last example that I can think of that is remotely similar is Olympia Fields Country Club, which built its fourth golf course for the 1928 U.S. Open.  That course was an instant classic and is still widely regarded as one of the best courses in America.

The same will likely be true in 100 years about Old Macdonald.  An instant classic with every mark of an enduring legend.

« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 09:30:33 PM by Terry Lavin »
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Jordan Wall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old MacDonald Voted Best of Bandon
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2010, 12:23:17 PM »
Terry,

Thanks for sharing.

How generous of Mr. Keiser and the folks at Bandon to allow such an event to be held.  The Evans Scholarship is a wonderful way to send kids to college who might not otherwise have the means available to do so.  $200,000 will send two more kids to college for four years.  That is awesome.

Old MacDonald certainly is a treat.  It's an amazing golf course.  Thanks for your review.

Cheers,
Jordan Wall

Evans Scholar

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old MacDonald Voted Best of Bandon
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2010, 12:24:19 PM »
Fantastic review Terry, thanks for posting and congrats on all the money raised for a great cause.

I'm sure the informal vote was part strength of design and part pure excitement of first time plays. However I agree that it's amazing that a resort has continued to get better and better with each course, even without any additional ocean front property being used at BT or OM. Congrats to all that is involved and I can't wait to make it out there to see OM.
H.P.S.

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old MacDonald Voted Best of Bandon
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2010, 12:27:06 PM »
Just when I think I cannot POSSIBLY get even more excited for my date at Old Mac, I see a post like this.

How do you expect a guy to function normally for next 3 weeks???

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old MacDonald Voted Best of Bandon
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2010, 12:30:13 PM »
Fantastic review Terry, thanks for posting and congrats on all the money raised for a great cause.

I'm sure the informal vote was part strength of design and part pure excitement of first time plays. However I agree that it's amazing that a resort has continued to get better and better with each course, even without any additional ocean front property being used at BT or OM. Congrats to all that is involved and I can't wait to make it out there to see OM.

Agreed.  My vote was: Pacific Dunes, Old MacDonald, Bandon Dunes and Bandon Trails.  Pacific just fits my eye better and I've only played Old Mac once.  The other comment that bears making here is that I love Trails more every time I play it.  It only suffers by comparison to the other courses, and principally because its eye candy is more forest-generated than ocean generated.  All told, there isn't a heck of a lot separating all four courses.  They're all phenomenal, in my book.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Mike Sweeney

Re: Old MacDonald Voted Best of Bandon
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2010, 12:30:54 PM »
Terry,

Nice review and thanks. Now let's get to the good stuff.  ;)

With private plane at your disposal for a relatively speaking even trip from Chicago, how do you split 10 rounds between Old Mac and NGLA?


Rob Rigg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old MacDonald Voted Best of Bandon
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2010, 12:33:42 PM »
Giddy with excitement is a massive understatement - I have gone from counting the days to counting the minutes - Thanks Terry! :)

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old MacDonald Voted Best of Bandon
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2010, 12:35:42 PM »
I should also mention that I was lucky enough to run into George Bahto in the Old MacDonald pro shop.  We had a brief, but delightful conversation.  I'm sure that they could have built Old MacDonald without George's input, but I can't help but believe that a good part of the "soul interpretation" of Old MacDonald came from this 80 year-old national golf architecture treasure of a man.  It speaks volumes about the class and integrity of Mike Keiser and Tom Doak that they asked George to be an integral part of the team.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Peter Pallotta

Re: Old MacDonald Voted Best of Bandon
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2010, 12:36:06 PM »
Terry - thank you, a wonderful (and wonderfully written) post. You should be proud of the fine efforts on behalf the Evans Foundation.  And it sounds as if -- as was exactly the case with NGLA -- the glowing pre-opening assessments for OM will stand the test of time.  How rare that something meant to 'educate us' actually fulfills its more fundamental duty too!

Peter

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old MacDonald Voted Best of Bandon
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2010, 12:39:13 PM »
Terry,

Nice review and thanks. Now let's get to the good stuff.  ;)

With private plane at your disposal for a relatively speaking even trip from Chicago, how do you split 10 rounds between Old Mac and NGLA?



I have a huge defect in my golf resume, in that I've not played on Long Island, so I'm not competent to render such a judgment.  Yet.  But I'll be very interested to hear some comparisons once the course opens up officially on June 1st.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Mike Wagner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old MacDonald Voted Best of Bandon
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2010, 01:15:27 PM »
Terry,

Thank you for your insight and great work with the Evans Scholarship!

Mike

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old MacDonald Voted Best of Bandon
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2010, 01:58:59 PM »
Terry,

Good work all around...Can't wait to get back out there!
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old MacDonald Voted Best of Bandon
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2010, 02:14:57 PM »
To expand on Mike's NGLA/Old Mac comparison question, with said private jet available, would there be enough time in a late June day to tee off on Long Island in the morning, fly to Oregon and finish the day with a round at Old Mac?  Just wondering.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Mark Smolens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old MacDonald Voted Best of Bandon
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2010, 02:19:52 PM »
Who's writing opinions in the First District Appellate Court with our esteemed colleague out gallivanting on the links on the left coast?  ???Sounds like it was a great trip. Looking forward to a chance to get back out there even more. . .

Mike Demetriou

Re: Old MacDonald Voted Best of Bandon
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2010, 02:21:17 PM »
Terry, an excellent review. You've completely ruined my afternoon - as I'm now reviewing Kevin's pictures in one window, and your short course tour in the other. I am giddy with anticipation, only 13 short months before my next Bandon Trip.

You mentioned a bit about the bunker on the Road Hole, but can you speak generally, or specifically for that matter, about the other bunkers? How do they compare to the other three courses?

Sven,
I spoke to a gentlemen early last year who told me that he was in fact going to be playing Old Mac on "opening" day, with another group of guys, who have a G-V, and are teeing off EARLY at the National, and then hot-footing it to Bandon to play Old Mac. Their plan leaves room to spare apparently, but you need at LEAST a G-V to get it done... My jealousy knows no boundaries.


Thomas Patterson

Re: Old MacDonald Voted Best of Bandon
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2010, 02:52:11 PM »
I spoke to a gentlemen early last year who told me that he was in fact going to be playing Old Mac on "opening" day, with another group of guys, who have a G-V, and are teeing off EARLY at the National, and then hot-footing it to Bandon to play Old Mac. Their plan leaves room to spare apparently, but you need at LEAST a G-V to get it done... My jealousy knows no boundaries.



That sounds like the LIFE! 

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old MacDonald Voted Best of Bandon
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2010, 02:55:57 PM »
G-V Time Machine!

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old MacDonald Voted Best of Bandon
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2010, 03:27:23 PM »
Very cool
Thank you Terry
Great to hear about the Evans Scholarships

Was the dinner/panel before the round at Old Mac?
I would think that the panel could help sway opinions of everyones preferences.
I'm not saying they are wrong - just too soon to tell after one visit.
The courses seem different - thus harder to judge.

I thought Macdonald brought the best holes from the UK because he couldn't do any better - not to teach about architecture.
C&C's work at Trails is great - and two of my favorite fairways were the hog backed ones.
They aren't replicas or inspirations, but their utilizations of what was on the ground -- knowing that routing across features can lead to more interesting holes -- from seeing examples in the UK or experimentation in their own work.

Did you say for you the 1st is one of the best holes or best opening holes.
Interesting that Tom says it is his favorite opener.
Did he have more room?

Congratulations on the successful visit - thank you for helping all those scholars.
Cheers
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 03:29:02 PM by Mike Nuzzo »
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old MacDonald Voted Best of Bandon
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2010, 03:43:58 PM »
Very cool
Thank you Terry
Great to hear about the Evans Scholarships

Was the dinner/panel before the round at Old Mac?
I would think that the panel could help sway opinions of everyones preferences.
I'm not saying they are wrong - just too soon to tell after one visit.
The courses seem different - thus harder to judge.

I thought Macdonald brought the best holes from the UK because he couldn't do any better - not to teach about architecture.
C&C's work at Trails is great - and two of my favorite fairways were the hog backed ones.
They aren't replicas or inspirations, but their utilizations of what was on the ground -- knowing that routing across features can lead to more interesting holes -- from seeing examples in the UK or experimentation in their own work.

Did you say for you the 1st is one of the best holes or best opening holes.
Interesting that Tom says it is his favorite opener.
Did he have more room?

Congratulations on the successful visit - thank you for helping all those scholars.
Cheers

I totally agree that it is too soon to really judge the golf course after only one round of play.  In that sense the vote was not only anecdotal, it was in many respects preliminary.

The program occurred the night before we played Old Mac, but I would venture to say that most in the crowd had done some independent research before we got to Oregon.

Finally, the opening hole was one of the best openers I've played.  It was bold, visually inspiring and quite representative of what lay in wait...
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old MacDonald Voted Best of Bandon
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2010, 04:24:58 PM »
Terry,
    Thanks for the report. Do you have any breakout of the votes. Did Old Macdonald "win" by virtue of the most 1st place votes or win on aggregate placement on a weighted basis  (ie 1st= 4pts, 2nd=3pts, 3rd=2 pts. 4th= 1 pt).
Because I'm a quirky guy, my views are 1) PD, 2) OM, 3) BT, 4)BD but think that Old Macdonald would inch ahead of Pacific Dunes by percentage point.
      I've been down consistently over the past 10+ years and after playing the preview course and walking all he holes more thasn once I was of the opinion the Old Macdonald would be viewed as the best because it has the fewest negatives and it doesn't discriminate against any golfer. Of the four (minus the location of Bandon and infrastructure, etc.) it is the best course to host the US Open.
     Had to re-read your description of hole #1 with your reference to the non-visible ocean.

Tony Weiler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old MacDonald Voted Best of Bandon
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2010, 04:32:45 PM »
Well done, Terry.  Now I REALLY need to get there. 

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old MacDonald Voted Best of Bandon
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2010, 04:34:19 PM »
Terry,
    Thanks for the report. Do you have any breakout of the votes. Did Old Macdonald "win" by virtue of the most 1st place votes or win on aggregate placement on a weighted basis  (ie 1st= 4pts, 2nd=3pts, 3rd=2 pts. 4th= 1 pt).
Because I'm a quirky guy, my views are 1) PD, 2) OM, 3) BT, 4)BD but think that Old Macdonald would inch ahead of Pacific Dunes by percentage point.
      I've been down consistently over the past 10+ years and after playing the preview course and walking all he holes more thasn once I was of the opinion the Old Macdonald would be viewed as the best because it has the fewest negatives and it doesn't discriminate against any golfer. Of the four (minus the location of Bandon and infrastructure, etc.) it is the best course to host the US Open.
     Had to re-read your description of hole #1 with your reference to the non-visible ocean.

It was only informally reported to us that twice as many people voted for Old Mac for best course as compared to Pacific Dunes which received all but one of the other first place votes.  An iconoclastic friend of mine was the only person that voted for Bandon Trails as the best of the bunch.  I actually thought that Pacific would win and was mildly surprised at the resounding victory for Old Macdonald, but when you think of it, the newest course is quite a visual departure from the rest and there's no question that everybody was quite excited to play it in a preview round.  When everything settles down, I'm guessing that there will be a split on the issue, with Old Mac edging out Pacific.  If you're Mike Keiser or Tom Doak, it's a good problem to have, that's for sure.

As for the "specter" of the ocean, I was referring to the fact that one knows that it lurks out there and the "air" is very expectant in that regard.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Will MacEwen

Re: Old MacDonald Voted Best of Bandon
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2010, 04:40:20 PM »
I'm planning my next trip there now, having just gone two months ago.

I like to split my rounds rather evenly when I am there - I enjoy them all, and like the contrast.  I may throw in another round at OM next trip because it will be new to me, but I am really having trouble choosing which course to take a round from.  I almost need five full days (10 rounds) now.  Or six.

Mike Demetriou

Re: Old Macdonald Voted Best of Bandon
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2010, 04:58:50 PM »
Will, I just had this conversation with a friend, about 30 minutes ago. Our next trip offers us eight formal rounds, assuming 36 a day. We'll of course play more than that, but practically speaking, we're going to play 36 coherently. We decided that even though we're stealing a round from BD to give to OM, it just isn't enough - we need ANOTHER day, AT LEAST.  That's the definition of a perfect golf destination in my book. 

I agree, whether or not OM is better than PD, is an amazing problem to have. From my perspective, just having that conversation means you're playing truly world class golf, which is of course the point.

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old Macdonald Voted Best of Bandon
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2010, 05:41:40 PM »
One of the perks of having four quality courses is the length of stay at the resort will probably expand from four to six nights. Might as well use your whole week.