Secondary courses

[Stan Dodd]

Brian,
Yes !!Yes!! the Eden is worth playing.  There are some fantastic holes.  And the two par 3's that share a dune  is one of my all time favorite uses of land. IMHO scrap the Jub.

The Struie couse at Dornoch, though clearly a 2nd course. (though you could put 99% of the golf courses in the world there and it would still be a 2nd course) has merit.  It is  a mixed bag 13 Old Tom holes and 5 new ones.  They are all good, just different.  The old holes have some wonderful green sites.  The new holes are on some of the most peaceful land .  Good fun and a real challenge.

[John Moore II]

how do the other seven courses at Pinehurst rate against number 2?

They rate pretty far below it. Even #4 and #8 as said to be fairly far below #4. The others are really just fillers, though they are interesting.

I think this is the case at nearly any 36 hole club. More of them have a really top level course and then another one that is there just to take up some additional teetimes, or as a beginners course. Of the 36 (or more) hole facilities I have played (Paradise Point at Camp Lejuene, Mid  South/Talamore, Foxfire, Bryan Park, Tanglewood, Pinehurst and PGA Golf Club) only Foxfire had two courses that were equal to each other, and neither were that great. Of course there are exceptions to this (Winged Foot comes to mind) but most of the time, multi-course facilities have one real good and others that are less than great.

[Bill Gayne]

There's several secondary courses at resorts in Virginia:

Golden Horseshoe Green Gold
Kingsmill River Woods
Homestead Upper and Lower Cascades
Wintergreen Stoney Creek Devils Knob
Bay Creek Nicklaus Palmer
Strantz Courses Royal New Kent Stonehouse

There all decent combos although I'm not quite the fan of Strantz that others on this website are.

[Matt MacIver]

Is it possible that the majority of visitors to Bandon Dunes expect Bandon Dunes to be the best course and come away thinking that possibly Pacific Dunes or Bandon Trails is even better? 

[Daryl David]

The "Yellow" nine at Portmarnock is very good.  It is meant as relief course for the championship nines when they need to rest, but can stand on it's own with several good/great holes.  If you get a chance to visit, make sure you ask to sneak over and play after your lunch.  Perfect dessert!

[Brian Freeman]

Brian,
Yes !!Yes!! the Eden is worth playing.  There are some fantastic holes.  And the two par 3's that share a dune  is one of my all time favorite uses of land. IMHO scrap the Jub.

The Struie couse at Dornoch, though clearly a 2nd course. (though you could put 99% of the golf courses in the world there and it would still be a 2nd course) has merit.  It is  a mixed bag 13 Old Tom holes and 5 new ones.  They are all good, just different.  The old holes have some wonderful green sites.  The new holes are on some of the most peaceful land .  Good fun and a real challenge.

Stan - thanks for the advice.  May have to cram in an after-dinner round one of the days.  Too many courses, too little time...

[Tom Huckaby]

I used to think MPCC Shore course was the "2nd" course to the Dunes course - Now I feel the tables may have been turned.  What say you?  And are there any others out there that have upstaged their big brother?

Regarding MPCC, wasn't general opinion prior to the re-do of either course that they were equal?  I know I never had strong preferences for one or the other as they were before.   Mr. Huntley would of course be the best to speak to this.

Then when Dunes was renovated by Rees, at that point it was likely seen as superior by most... especially given the vast improvememts to #14, making that a true over the ocean shot - no?

Now that the Shore has been COMPLETELY re-done by Strantz, most do seem to find it to be the superior course.  However, there is a vocal minority who still prefer Dunes (I fall in that camp).

So it's been an interesting journey, anyway.

[Ben Stephens]

To me, the most underrated of the bunch is the Valley course at Royal Portrush.  I think it's wonderful, but most people never venture over to play it.

When I lived in St. Andrews (1982), my favorite course to go and play was the Eden course, before the changes were made to accommodate the practice facility.

Hi Tom,

I have been trying to find old images of the Eden Course before the changes. Which holes were removed and where were they.
Is the current 1st hole used to be the 3rd hole of the old layout?

Cheers
Ben

Hi Ben,

If you search, there's a very good thread on here showing an overhead with the old routing... Many people mistakenly presume that it was a straight 4 hole swap with the loss of the old 1,2, 17 and 18... But there were quite a few other changes to accomodate this...

A genuine second course (albeit nine holes) is at Portmarnock... makes for a good day out playing 27 but most people don't even consider the yellow nine...

Hi Ally,

I have done a search and found thread but the photos or images would not appear 

Cheers
Ben

[Greg Tallman]

At the risk of sounding slef serving I would say The Desert Course at Cabo del Sol is a very strong "second course".

[Ally Mcintosh]

To me, the most underrated of the bunch is the Valley course at Royal Portrush.  I think it's wonderful, but most people never venture over to play it.

When I lived in St. Andrews (1982), my favorite course to go and play was the Eden course, before the changes were made to accommodate the practice facility.

Hi Tom,

I have been trying to find old images of the Eden Course before the changes. Which holes were removed and where were they.
Is the current 1st hole used to be the 3rd hole of the old layout?

Cheers
Ben

Hi Ben,

If you search, there's a very good thread on here showing an overhead with the old routing... Many people mistakenly presume that it was a straight 4 hole swap with the loss of the old 1,2, 17 and 18... But there were quite a few other changes to accomodate this...

A genuine second course (albeit nine holes) is at Portmarnock... makes for a good day out playing 27 but most people don't even consider the yellow nine...

Hi Ally,

I have done a search and found thread but the photos or images would not appear 

Cheers
Ben

Ben,

You're a better man than me... I found a few detailed Eden threads but they weren't the one that I was referring to which must have been a different subject matter... Anyway Marty Bonnar and Rich Goodale are your men when it comes to this overhead... I can't recall which one posted it and the latter has unfortunately bowed out of this forum, more's the pity...

So... Calling Marty?

[Jim Sweeney]

Oakland Hill's second course is very strong; its architecture blends well with its big sister. When the US amateur was last held at Baltusroll, the upper course hosted the match play; quite a feather for its cap. Some may consider this pairing a stretch: Pine Needles has hosted two recent US Women's Opens and also recently recieved a major renovation. Its sister course across the street, Mid Pines, is, as we all no, a jewel.

[Matthew Hunt]

Royal County Down's second course is very much an old man's course, although it has some nice holes in the dunes at the far end.

I bet like me, you have struggled on it a few times thought . I talked to a group of single-figure Americians that played the course as thier first ever links. They all thought it would be a push over at the lenght but they really stuggled as they did not know how to cope with the short game challanges and the wind. They really enjoyed it thought.

[Gerry B]

some mentioned

my list would include(for various reasons) excluding resort course with multiple courses - ie WS / Bandon / Kiawah / pinehurst / st andrews etc
olympia fields south - might be the best 2nd course in the us
sunningdale new - fantastic
portrush - valley course
merion west - great short course
short course at pv is fun
mini shinny and maidstone east 9
walton heath new - some very good holes
oak hill west - some great holes but some clunkers as well
par 3 course at olympic(cliffs)
mpcc dunes - needs work
baltusrol  - upper
lacc south  / torrey pines / shorter course at rcd / baltimore cc west / congressional red  / royal melbourne 2nd courseand oakland hills south - have never played them
saucon valley
winged foot east
devils pulpit or paintbrush - which is the secondary course?
medinah 1
1 of the other 2 courses at the national in cape schank
indianwood new -no comparison to the old

[Tim Nugent]

The hilarious one is in Green Lake, WI:  most people consider Lawsonia Links the second course to the Woodlands ....

LMAO - just goes to show how uneducated the masses are!