[Chris Johnston]

Get 'em. Those Apex Grinds are as good a set of irons as there has ever been, IMO...

Why? I  have a set and a set of about year 2000 Hogan Apex. What is the difference? Who actually manufactured them? Maybe that is the difference.

Kelly

Apex shafts were manufactured by my old company, Royal Precision, in Connecticut.  Apex 5's were made by both RP and True Temper, and now eclusively by TT.  The Apex family is a great shaft.  A ProjectX is a stepless version in the Apex family - a bit softer than a stepped shaft.

I believe there is a slight difference in feel between forgings and castings.  I notice no difference in feel between Forged blades and Forged cavities.  Old line forged blades were much smaller.  Consistent with this thread, the best forgings are made in Japan. 

[John Kavanaugh]

One of the great mysteries in life is that old blades do not hit as pure as new blades.  I currently own a set of 76 Wilson Staffs,  2000 Titleist musclebacks and the 2010 Scratch EZ-1's.  While the technological improvements are not evident on the outside there is no comparison under real world conditions. 

[Scott Szabo]

I still have a few of the Titleist Tour Model blades (sand wedge, wedge and 9-iron) in my bag that I bought back in 1986.  I just love the feel that I get with them. 

I removed the rest of the set from my bag quite a while ago as they were not as forgiving on slight mishits as the newer models were.

[Jim Eder]

When I played Pings I noticed my swing got sloppy because I could get away with it.  I practiced less and gradually my game was poorer. With my forged irons I had to get my swing back into shape, had to hit more balls, and I ended up getting that sound back which I just love. Maybe it is academic and maybe my thinking is total nonesense but I just feel more true using blades and feel my swing is better and I am able to play better.

[PCCraig]

Consistent with this thread, the best forgings are made in Japan. 

I greatly appreciate all the input.

Chris,

Why are the best forgings made in Japan?

I don't know why but that could be considered true.

Muira & Mizuno are some of the best. Weren't Titlest's blades (the 681's) made there for awhile?

[David_Tepper]

Pat -

I think Miura has made forgings for both MacGregor & TaylorMade in the past. Orlimar as well.

DT

[JC Jones]

Consistent with this thread, the best forgings are made in Japan. 

I greatly appreciate all the input.

Chris,

Why are the best forgings made in Japan?

I don't know why but that could be considered true.

Muira & Mizuno are some of the best. Weren't Titlest's blades (the 681's) made there for awhile?

When Tiger signed his first Titleist contract he was playing a mixed set of Mizuno MP-14 and MP-29s.  His Titleist blades were Mizunos with a Titleist brand on them.

[Wade Schueneman]

My two cents.....
Go with some type of cavity back irons.  A lot of tour players use cavity back, two examples are  Lee Westwood and Dustin Johnson.  Technology today is made to help the average guy. Heard a guy on the tour the other day say, "why wouldn't you use cavity irons if it can't hurt you."

Rick,

Golfers who are worried about score might want to avoid blade, but golfers who just want to have fun might prefer the feedback, workability and challenge of a blade.  I think a lot of golfers might consider cavity back low irons and then blades for 5-W. 

[Chris Johnston]

Kelly - there is an area in Japan where the focus is on forgings, for more things than golf.  They have been doing it for decades and are the world standard for quality and have been for a while.  Grinding a forged head is a lost art, and the artisans are in the same area.

Shivas - While part of Cobra, Greg Norman played MacGregor VIPs (I think) with "Cobra" stamped on them.  Happens all the time on tour.

[jonathan_becker]

Kelly - there is an area in Japan where the focus is on forgings, for more things than golf. 

A good example would be forging swords.


On another note, there are two things that a cavity and even a forged cavity can't compete with when it comes to blades.

1.  Offset.  Every cavity has some offset and if you hit the ball high a blade is the only way to minimize it without making swing adjustments.

2.  In my opinion, nothing "pops" like a blade when you flush it.  Some may disagree with this statement and that's ok, but I'm a firm believer.  No cavity provides that feeling.

[PCCraig]

Here's a good looking set for $99:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Wilson-Staff-Forged-Blades-FG-51-2-through-PW-/160508350368?pt=Golf_Clubs&hash=item255f0b0fa0

[PCCraig]

You can pick up a decent set of Mizuno MP-14's for anywhere from:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mizuno-MP-14-Iron-Set-2-PW-TT-DG-Stiff-Shafts-Lamkin-/320618616724?pt=Golf_Clubs&hash=item4aa65bd794

to these cool looking puppies:

http://cgi.ebay.com/MIZUNO-MP-14-3-PW-S300-BLUEPRINTED-BLACK-OXIDE-AWESOME-/230550812580?pt=Golf_Clubs&hash=item35ade637a4

[RSLivingston_III]

Kelly - there is an area in Japan where the focus is on forgings, for more things than golf.  

A good example would be forging swords.


On another note, there are two things that a cavity and even a forged cavity can't compete with when it comes to blades.
1.  Offset.  Every cavity has some offset and if you hit the ball high a blade is the only way to minimize it without making swing adjustments.
2.  In my opinion, nothing "pops" like a blade when you flush it.  Some may disagree with this statement and that's ok, but I'm a firm believer.  No cavity provides that feeling.

The forging swords comment got me thinking about the blacksmiths of Scotland and what their history might have been.
There are a number of references (in Scotland) to various types of steels that customers could pick from, at least from the custom Iron makers.
It raises some interesting questions...

[Chris Johnston]

Kelly - there is an area in Japan where the focus is on forgings, for more things than golf. 

A good example would be forging swords.


On another note, there are two things that a cavity and even a forged cavity can't compete with when it comes to blades.

1.  Offset.  Every cavity has some offset and if you hit the ball high a blade is the only way to minimize it without making swing adjustments.

2.  In my opinion, nothing "pops" like a blade when you flush it.  Some may disagree with this statement and that's ok, but I'm a firm believer.  No cavity provides that feeling.

Jonathan - As to #1 above, you can easily change trajectory via the shaft and kick point.  We did a "Flighted Rifle" series which was very popular on tour...the long iron would go higher and the short irons lower - each intended to go through the same "window".  AT RP, we did it with 46 inch blanks and trimming the shaft to a desired flight and frequency profile.  Quite simple, actually.

[jonathan_becker]

Chris,

You are right about all the info regarding the rifle flighted.   However, I want the lowest launch with every iron and I guess that's what I was getting at.  The RF short irons were great, but I hit the long irons straight up in the air and was actually losing carry.  No knock against them, they're just not for me.

 

[Chris Johnston]

Chris,

You are right about all the info regarding the rifle flighted.   However, I want the lowest launch with every iron and I guess that's what I was getting at.  The RF short irons were great, but I hit the long irons straight up in the air and was actually losing carry.  No knock against them, they're just not for me.

 

Jonathan - For the long irons, regular Rifles would have kept the ball down.  There are tons of variables to help you achieve your goals.

[Kevin_Reilly]

His Titleist blades were Mizunos with a Titleist brand on them.

Yikes, I thought that internet myth had been killed a long time ago.  It's arisen from the the grave like a zombie. 

[Kevin_Reilly]

Shivas - While part of Cobra, Greg Norman played MacGregor VIPs (I think) with "Cobra" stamped on them.  Happens all the time on tour.

It was a MacGregor 985 head that was worked on by Don White for Norman.

[JC Jones]

His Titleist blades were Mizunos with a Titleist brand on them.

Yikes, I thought that internet myth had been killed a long time ago.  It's arisen from the the grave like a zombie. 

Yes.  So many internet rumors in 1997.....

[Mark Buzminski]

I'm a Titleist guy, so that's where I personally would head.  Right now I am playing a full set of forged cavity back Titleists.   One thing you may consider doing (which I am going to do with my next set) is getting a "mixed" set - cavity back forged irons in the longer irons  (4,5,6) and blades from 7 to PW.   This shouldn't be a problem especially if you plan to get fitted.  

[Chris Johnston]

Mark - Agree with you 100%.  Titleist = Quality. 

Titleist forgings are quite good as well and quality control is awesome!

[Chris Johnston]

Mark - Agree with you 100%.  Titleist = Quality. 

Titleist forgings are quite good as well and quality control is awesome!

Chris, thanks for the information on Japan. Who do you work for?

Kelly

I used to be the CEO of Royal Precision, maker of Apex, FCM, Microtaper, Rifle and ProjectX.  I have a decent knowledge base about shafts and other components, and how they behave and perform.  We sold our company to TT 5-6 years ago. 

[JMEvensky]

I used to be the CEO of Royal Precision 
I have a decent knowledge base about shafts and other components
 

I think this is called understatement.

Being in Memphis,I was a traitor for using Rifles according to a friend at TT.I still use a set of original 6.0's which have been installed in several sets of heads.I can't imagine ever changing.

Chris,if you dealt with any engineering guys at TT,we probably have some mutual acquaintances.

[Dan_Callahan]

While they technically aren't blades, the Ping s59 at address has the same look as a blade. Thin topline, almost no offset, tiny head. However, I find them to be almost as forgiving as the best cavity back. And from what I've heard, the s56 is even better.

I never played Pings and never really thought about them as an option. But the pro at my club a few years ago was upgrading to the s58, and he sold me his s59's for cheap (we have the same build and swing, so they fit me perfectly). I've never been happier with a set of irons. I swapped out the 3-iron for an Adams Pro hybrid, but that wasn't because the s59 3-iron was particularly difficult to hit ... more a case that the Adams hybrid is brilliant.

[Charlie Goerges]

This is OOT, but I'm wondering what would happen if they tested the difference between cast and forged by making a cast and forged blade iron in the exact same shape. I wonder if anyone could tell the difference between them?

I ask because years ago when I was looking into the manufacture of wood chisels I consulted an old tool supplier and asked him whether there would be any difference between machining a chisel from a small billet of tool steel vs forging a softer tool steel. He said no, that all the stuff about forging "healing" the steel or filling voids and whatnot was a bunch of hooey. He said that forging was a way to get the metal to the right shape with less waste, nothing more. The implication being that if it was more cost-effective to machine away excess metal than to forge it to shape, then that was the way to go. Casting is a different process, but most billets of steel are cast that way to begin with.

Sorry to ramble, any thoughts?

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