Are there any good double dog-leg par 5s?

[Alex Miller]

#5 on PGA West Stadium Course

[Sven Nilsen]

I played an unusual double dogleg (zig-zag style) last summer. The hole can be reached in two but with a blind second shot as the green sits in a hollow and is not visible from fairway.  The longest skinniest green I've ever seen.  Maybe not a great hole but certainly whimsical.

I post the aerials and see if anyone recognizes it.

Blackstone in Phoenix.

[Matt_Cohn]

#5 on PGA West Stadium Course

I was thinking of this one too. Such a simple hole, really, but you can sure get out of position trying to play "safe".

[Andrew Lewis]

What about the 18th at Yale?  Hole moves right off the tee and then left on the second -- assuming, of course, that your ball is positioned well enough to hit a big draw over or around the hill.  If not, then it's further right on the second, and left to the green on your third.

[img]http://lh5.ggpht.com/_RfyM7yzJ0zs/S91jvsyBwkI/AAAAAAAABUg/fOFSdDOzv3k/Yale%20--%2018th.jpg[img]

[Tim Nugent]

Larry Packard must have liked them - he titled his book Double Dogleg.
I think the element forcing the dogleg(s) and the angles that the fairway turns make them either good or bad.
The elements that preclude one from advancing his ball over the inside corner I don't like.  They work against the player who plays a fade (or a draw).  Also, they preclude the short knocker from being able to cut off some distance and can force a layup 4th shot (or a long 3rd approach).

[Tom Yost]

Blackstone in Phoenix.

That's the one, Sven!

[Jason Connor]

Where I grew up golf holes tended to be cut out of trees.  And I've never seen a double-dogleg cut out of trees that was any good.  Basically there just are no options and it's hard to be a great golf hole without options.

Now open and with possibilities of cutting corners, flying hazards, etc. Then you can have some fun risk-reward double doglegs where perhaps the safe line is a double dogleg, but the gambler has more options.

Perhaps "The Gambler" at Arnold Palmer's King's North is a decent example.  The hole is perhaps too gimmicky -- I definitely don't consider it a great hole.  But it has options.

[TEPaul]

"Would it be a stretch to call Pebble's 18th a double dogleg?"



Yes, definitetly. In my opinion, that would be a real stretch!

[Jason Topp]

It seems like Pete Dye's standard par five is a double dogleg.  Many are very good - 16 at the Ocean Course is one of my favorites.

[Alex Miller]

It seems like Pete Dye's standard par five is a double dogleg.  Many are very good - 16 at the Ocean Course is one of my favorites.

Though it's less of a dogleg (not less of a hole), #2 at The Ocean Course is also great!


I agree that Pete Dye is probably the master of the double dogleg with opposite direction changes. #11 at TPC Sawgrass is a very unique double dogleg if one takes the route to the left of the green.

[TEPaul]

"The 8th at Meadow Brook in Jericho, Long Island (Dick Wilson) is a great big parkland left-then-right dogleg par five. Wonderful hole."


jkinney:

It is a pretty good double dogleg or at least a good dogleg on the second half. Back in the old days it was also considered to be virtually unreachable because it was very long but particularly because to get on the green even off a mammoth drive you pretty much had to take it right over trees. I guess at this point those trees are a whole lot higher than they were back then.

[Rob Bice]

Skokie outside of Chicago has two double dog legs - #7 and #11.  I thought of myself as technologically inclined but for some reason I can't upload the google earth images.  Oh well.

The doglegs on the 7th hole are defined by trees - left to right initially and then right to left to the green.  However, you can carry the trees off the tee to the right thereby cutting the corner and having a second shot into the green.  The risk/reward is that right of the fairway is native grass and right of the grass is out of bounds.  There is also a bunker on the inside of the dogleg.  The hole allows the option to play straight off the tee and have ~170 yards to a landing area for a ~130 yard shot into the green.  The hole requires precision if you want to go for it in two but also allows for a more conservative approach with much less difficulty.

The 11th hole doglegs left and then right.  The tee shot is defined by trees while the second dogleg (following a recent rennovation) is defined by bunkers and water.  Similar to 7 you can take an aggressive line off the tee going over the trees - there is a bunker on the inside of the dogleg and getting caught in the trees is a risk.  The second shot, even following a well executed drive, is challenging because of the water to the right and a green that isn't very receptive to longer shots.  You can play the hole straight off the tee leaving yourself with a 175 - 200 yard shot to reach a 100 - 120 yard approach shot.

The key to both holes is that you have options off the tee.  The doglegs aren't so sharp or so defined thereby eliminating strategy.  Both have risk/reward elements and overall fit well with the other aspects of the course.

[Link Walsh]

It seems like Pete Dye's standard par five is a double dogleg.  Many are very good - 16 at the Ocean Course is one of my favorites.

I was just thinking about #11 at Sawgrass.  Of course the pros this week will mostly be hitting straight at the green with their second shot, but I would imagine most players the other 50 weeks of the year have to hit their second shots out to the left.