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Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Trollies/pull carts
« on: April 27, 2010, 09:16:38 PM »
I am used to hearing arguements against pull carts to preserve caddie programs or loss of electric cart revenue. Which of the old line clubs have changed to allow them in recent years? How was the change taken by the membership after a year?
« Last Edit: April 27, 2010, 10:30:43 PM by Tiger_Bernhardt »

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trollies/pull carts
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2010, 09:21:57 PM »
They are allowed at my club but not widely used.  I am almost certain they have no impact on cart revenue.  Caddie loops did not decrease when they were introduced.  Instead loops decreased when caddies stopped being mandatory.

It has been five years since they allowed pull (or push) carts.  I do not recall a single person even discussing it during that entire time.

Mike McGuire

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trollies/pull carts
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2010, 09:51:54 PM »
My brother in laws caddie at Portmarnock used a pull cart.

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trollies/pull carts
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2010, 10:17:56 PM »
My caddie at Portstewart used an electric push cart.

I don't know when or why it happened, but I just noticed the other day that my club here in the DC area has banned push/pull carts.  At the same time I noted that the club had raised the "walking fee" for weekend mornings to "one-half the price of a full cart fee based on two riders."  I think the latter is all about revenue; I think the former is less so.

Since I'm opposed to both rules, I guess I should've been paying attention.

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trollies/pull carts
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2010, 10:27:47 PM »
Tiger,      At my club in Chicago we have probably one the largest caddy corp in the Midwest-roughly 300 loopers on the books. Most of these are high schoolers with several college kids back each Summer. We do not have any pro jocks. During the Spring and Fall it can be an issue when the caddies are not here especially during the week or when things get wet and carts are not allowed. We purchased some push carts a couple of years ago -I believe they get some use but not a great deal.  I own  a push cart but generally carry my own when caddies aren't available- I sit on my butt all day as a dentist :). I personally enjoy having a good caddy and am happy to pay for the service.                          Jack

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trollies/pull carts
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2010, 06:48:54 AM »
Tiger,      At my club in Chicago we have probably one the largest caddy corp in the Midwest-roughly 300 loopers on the books. Most of these are high schoolers with several college kids back each Summer. We do not have any pro jocks. During the Spring and Fall it can be an issue when the caddies are not here especially during the week or when things get wet and carts are not allowed. We purchased some push carts a couple of years ago -I believe they get some use but not a great deal.  I own  a push cart but generally carry my own when caddies aren't available- I sit on my butt all day as a dentist :). I personally enjoy having a good caddy and am happy to pay for the service.                          Jack

I'm with Jack on this one, sort of...I enjoy having a caddy as it makes for a nice expereince, but usually can't afford one.  If I could though I would! ;)

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trollies/pull carts
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2010, 08:36:28 AM »
Is the banning of push carts, Sun Mountain etc, a Northeast phenomenon?

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trollies/pull carts
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2010, 08:45:05 AM »
In the Philly area,Merion West has a fleet of yellow Sun Mountain 3 wheel push carts available for rental at a very reasonable rate. Some other old line clubs have simiilar carts available- Cricket on the Hurdzan course and possibly Sunnybrook.


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Wayne Wiggins, Jr.

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trollies/pull carts
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2010, 01:06:05 PM »
Valley Club of Montecito and Desert Forest both allow trollies.  With my home club(s) did... especially Olympic where we really don't have a regular caddy "program"

C. Sturges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trollies/pull carts
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2010, 01:44:04 PM »
I used to be at a club that was walking only.  We had a strong caddy program and lots of pull carts.  The pull carts did not take away from the caddy program.  They were for the people who would other wise carry there bag, and not get a caddy unless someone else was paying.  I dislike not being able to walk and having to take a cart or pay a cart fee.  And to think when you are a junior you can not take a cart, I want to go back to that time.

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trollies/pull carts
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2010, 04:28:31 PM »
Very few private clubs in the northeast US allow pull carts. I wish this were not the case. Most clubs require caddy or a riding cart before a certain time (usually about 3 PM.) The clubs will tell you this is to support the caddy program (and it does help caddies) but it is to generate cart revenue.

Sadly, this line item is a significant income line for many clubs. I always feel that it is beating up the course for the sake of a few dollars, but  in this economic environment, I know the rules will not be relaxed.

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trollies/pull carts
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2010, 11:11:01 PM »
Our compromise to get pushcarts was that we have to use the club's carts and pay a ten dollar rental fee.They are very popular.Except during the summer we are about half walking,and a third of those push.Our tries at caddie programs have been failures.I assume we had caddies during the teens and twenties,but not in my lifetime.

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trollies/pull carts
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2010, 11:56:51 PM »
MPCC provides Sun Mountain carts for Members and Guests without charge.

Bob

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trollies/pull carts
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2010, 12:05:03 AM »
Tiger -

In the S.F. Bay & Nor Cal Area, clubs that I have played in the past 6-9 months that provide 3-wheel push/pull carts include Lake Merced, Sonoma, Cal Club & Monterey Peninsula. I cannot think of any reason why any & all clubs should not provide them.

DT

K. Krahenbuhl

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trollies/pull carts
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2010, 12:10:45 AM »
I pushed mine around the course tonight.  On a flat Texas course I can't think of anything better this side of a caddy.

Colin Macqueen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trollies/pull carts
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2010, 02:31:13 AM »
Here in Australia it would be very unusual not to be able to hire a trolley/pull cart at a nominal price of about $5. I cannot think of a course I have visited where this is not available whether it be a resort, private or public (muni) course. In the same breath it is a very unusual to have caddies available at a course. I suspect Aussie caddies would not last long as they would not suffer poor golf easily without making some sort of facile (but probably pithy and hilarious) comment regarding their clients ability!

Cheers Colin (The Hielander).
"Golf, thou art a gentle sprite, I owe thee much"
The Hielander

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trollies/pull carts
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2010, 08:37:00 AM »
MPCC provides Sun Mountain carts for Members and Guests without charge.

Bob

So does the Valley Club in Santa Barbara, it's a nice touch.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trollies/pull carts
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2010, 09:25:36 AM »
Why don't most clubs simply charge the proper dues instead of milking cart revenues? It's not as though after a season or two of seeing those monthly bills come in that people can't figure out the true all-in cost of membership...If more of the membership walked, maybe they'd be able to play golf longer and therefore continue paying dues longer..... :-\
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trollies/pull carts
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2010, 09:53:52 AM »
Sadly, this line item is a significant income line for many clubs. I always feel that it is beating up the course for the sake of a few dollars, but  in this economic environment, I know the rules will not be relaxed.

The one thing I wish someone would do is commission a study on exactly how much it COSTS to have a barn full of carts.  The equation would have to include every dime spent on:

  • washing
    moving
    maintaining
    repairing
    insuring\fueling or charging the evil beasts

Don't forget the the cost of:

  • building and maintaining a cart barn
    the carts themselves
    wall-to-wall cart paths their maintenance

And every single dime spent by the golf course maintenance staff in repairing the damage they do to golf courses, including the time spent making sure the people who drive them aren't misbehaving.

At least a couple of people i have talked to in the business think the bottom line might not be as big people think, in wihch case it could be covered by a reasonable increase in dues or green fees.

Of course, IMHO, the real reason we won't see this is that the cart industry is big business, and no one is going to fund the study. Even if someone did, too damned many of my golfing bretheren simply can't or won't walk--especially now that we have so many cartball courses that are virtually unwalkable by even fit golfers.

K
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Daryl "Turboe" Boe

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trollies/pull carts
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2010, 09:54:45 AM »
Valley Club of Montecito and Desert Forest both allow trollies.  With my home club(s) did... especially Olympic where we really don't have a regular caddy "program"

In fact Desert Forest has trollies you can use.  They have the nice Sun Mountain 2 & 3 models, and I can tell you after using one, that I found them to be fantastic trollies probably as good as the one I have had for several years.  I have always sworn by my "Pilgrim" trolley that a friend got for me in Australia.  I haven't seen them much here in the states.
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Cristian

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trollies/pull carts
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2010, 09:55:51 AM »
Sadly in the Netherlands caddies have all but completely disappeared. However 95+% of all rounds are still being walked; I think this is largely due to the popularity of Pull trolleys, probably 70% of walkers use one, perhaps even more. Without pull trolleys many people would not be able to walk 18 holes. Also the pull trolleys keep costs low, enabling more people to enjoy the game.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trollies/pull carts
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2010, 11:41:35 AM »
Ken,

Don't forget course maintenance issues like soil compaction, grass killing, paying workers to set and move cart directing signs, etc.

The USGA has written that carts cost more than any club charges for them, but the typical member here says the USGA is full of hot air, because they know better.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Emil Weber

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trollies/pull carts
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2010, 04:04:35 PM »
Sadly in the Netherlands caddies have all but completely disappeared. However 95+% of all rounds are still being walked; I think this is largely due to the popularity of Pull trolleys, probably 70% of walkers use one, perhaps even more. Without pull trolleys many people would not be able to walk 18 holes. Also the pull trolleys keep costs low, enabling more people to enjoy the game.

same in Germany. I always use pull carts in tournaments, but carry if I just go out for a quick nine holes.

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trollies/pull carts
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2010, 04:56:39 PM »
Thanks guys, I am trying to help build a case for one of my clubs to allow them.

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trollies/pull carts
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2010, 06:24:40 PM »
Tell them they are out of line with the rest of the the world. I don't think such stunts as walking fees or trolley bans exist anywhere outside the US.

Also, tell them that studies prove that carrying is a strain on the back and should not be done regularly. Myself, I often carry a light bag when playing a few quick holes, but use a trolley for quality rounds. There's just so much more stuff you can put in a trolley like extra water, rain gear, a full set of clubs, laser range finder, camera, a decent meal for those Sunday tournament rounds, ...

Riding a cart doesn't make much sense in my case. For me golf is not only a recreation, but also a sport that is an integral part of my fitness regime. So riding a cart would completely defeat the purpose of playing golf. I used to ride one particular course that had long distances between greens and tees and was very hilly, but have started to walk that one as well. Tell your club that I'm still alive :)

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

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