[Michael Huber]

A few weeks back there was a pretty good thread on Philadelphia's best 18 public golf holes.  Well, a newspaper editor somewhere in pittsburgh decided it would be a good idea to copy Joe Logan's idea, and here we have it.  For what its worth, the holes were chosen by 20 or so local PGA pros and so forth. 

Here is the link:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10101/1049198-136.stm

As far as my thoughts are concerned, needless to say there are not a whole lot of great public golf holes in Western Pennsylvania.  Obviously, there should be more holes from Bedford Springs, but when you consider the fact that it has been open for about a year, I would imagine a lot of people have not played it much. 

Thoughts?  Input?  Opinions?

I will post my thoughts, input, and opinions in a later post.   

[George Pazin]

Quick thought is that it's sad the author doesn't care for any of the older courses we have, as seemingly all of the holes are from newer courses.

Second quick thought: Olde Stonewall is utterly forgettable, wouldn't include any holes from the most overpriced course in America.

Gotta think about the rest, look forward to reading your thoughts.

[Garland Bayley]

Quick thought is that it's sad the author doesn't care for any of the older courses we have, as seemingly all of the holes are from newer courses.

Second quick thought: Olde Stonewall is utterly forgettable, wouldn't include any holes from the most overpriced course in America.

Gotta think about the rest, look forward to reading your thoughts.

Wow George, Brave man! Criticizing our favorite son.

[Michael Blake]

Quick thought is that it's sad the author doesn't care for any of the older courses we have, as seemingly all of the holes are from newer courses.

Second quick thought: Olde Stonewall is utterly forgettable, wouldn't include any holes from the most overpriced course in America.

Gotta think about the rest, look forward to reading your thoughts.

Wow George, Brave man! Criticizing our favorite son.

Garland it appears you you are praising Geroge for criticizing Doak's Stonewall, which he is not.  The 'Stonewall' George is bashing is 300 miles west of Doak's Stonewall.  Different course.

[Garland Bayley]

Well you know there is all that second rate golf in PA. All the Stonewalls have to be pretty much the same Doak 2 or 3s.

Quite a coincidence that the course build in 1993 is Stonewall Old course, and some other Old Stonewall charges too much. For that matter, there are a few courses in Oregon that charge too much.
 

[Shawn Arlia]

Im surprised they picked #12 at Cranberry Highlands. It is an enjoyable course, but i like #15, the long par three across the ravine. As for par fours, the #16 or #17 are both worth more mention than the aforementioned hole.

Olde Stonewall overrated!? Overpriced definately but im not so sure about overrated. Besides Bedford Springs, what other public course in western PA is better.

[Ronald Montesano]

I'll go with the Tom's Run choice...I like that course, but I don't love it.  I think that they could have done a better job with the green and surrounds on the drop-shot second and I think that fifteen is a quintessential half shot hole...definitely a par 4.5.

[JohnV]

Olde Stonewall overrated!? Overpriced definately but im not so sure about overrated. Besides Bedford Springs, what other public course in western PA is better.

Mystic Rock
Tom's Run
Quicksilver
Oak Tree
Pittsburgh North
and probably quite a few more.

The back 9 of Olde Stonewall is a routing nightmare.  The front 9 is ok.

[Richard Hetzel]

I played Birdsfoot back in 2008. Solid course. I will post a picture of hole #3 when I get home....

[George Pazin]

Olde Stonewall overrated!? Overpriced definately but im not so sure about overrated. Besides Bedford Springs, what other public course in western PA is better.

John's list works for me. I'd also add Birdsfoot and Pittsburgh National (formerly Deer Run, designed by Ron Forse) as publics I prefer to Olde Stonewall. And they're 1/3 the price - or less! Heck, I prefer the other course at Nemacolin - the Links course or whatever it's called - to OS.

I say overrated because it is rated something like the #1 or 2 public in the state. It's not horrible, but it is horribly overpriced, and if someone puts in the top 10, it sure must be overrated as well. I would rather play my home muni, especially since I can play it 10 times for the price of 1 play at OS. And that doesn't even get into the aesthetics; the course actually has steel cutouts of deer! There are thousands of actual deer in western PA, probably tens of thousands!

Sorry if anyone has a connection to OS...

[Richard Hetzel]

This is hole #3 at Birdsfoot GC that is mentioned in those ranked holes for public golf around Pittsburgh. The picture was taken looking BACK from the green to the tee. This hole "does not" sport a split fairway; in fact, you cannot even see that adjacent fairway from the teeing ground if I remember correctly. It is an adjoining hole from the back nine. I actually walked up for a better view, noticed an option of playing up that adjacent hole and avoided the 3rd's designed fairway altogether. It shortens the hole quite nicely, but it then leaves you with an elevated shot into the sloping green that is also well protected by bunkers. I don't play from the back tees so I had this option, from the far rear of the tee box this may not be an option unless you are a master of the high hook shot.

[Michael Huber]

Well,  for full disclosure I have only played the Links at Spring Church, Bedford, Birdsfoot, Cedarbrook, and the Madison Club.  So I've only played 5 of the 12 courses listed.  So does that make me qualified to comment?  Hell no, but I will anyways.

As far as value concerned, there arent many great courses in the Pittsburgh area, but there is are plenty of reasonably price, reasonably crowded, reasonably designed, and reasonably enjoyable courses in the area.  The golf market isnt sexy but it is priced accurately.  I think that is what seperates Pittsburgh from a lot of other cities...including Philly. 

As far as the list itself, I'm a little surprised no hole from champion lakes...specifically #4 and #13 did not make the list.

I prefer the par 5 #2 on the links at spring church to the par 5 18th.  To me, there lake on 18 does not make for a big gamble and its kind of ugly.  #2 has a better 2nd shot, tougher green complex and a tougher green. 

The volcano hole and #17 at bedford are superior to the par 3s at madison. 

I'd post my favorite 18 in pittsburgh but I really dont think anyone would be interested.

[George Pazin]

I'd post my favorite 18 in pittsburgh but I really dont think anyone would be interested.

I would be.

I haven't played all of the courses on the list - heck, I've only played about half of the holes listed - but that didn't stop me from commenting on the holes I've played!

I didn't realize Totteridge was now considered public.

[Richard Hetzel]

Michael,

Please do. I might make a short road trip to PB to join you! Cincinnati is the same as PB, a lot of affordable, if not boring, golf.

[Chris_Blakely]

I'd post my favorite 18 in pittsburgh but I really dont think anyone would be interested.

I would be.

I haven't played all of the courses on the list - heck, I've only played about half of the holes listed - but that didn't stop me from commenting on the holes I've played!

I didn't realize Totteridge was now considered public.

Why wouldn't Totteridge be considered public?  As of last year, it opened to the public and anyone can play it.

Chris

[George Pazin]

I didn't know that, Chris. I guess I should have said I didn't know it was now public, as opposed to considered public. I'll have to look into a tee time.

[Chris_Blakely]

I didn't know that, Chris. I guess I should have said I didn't know it was now public, as opposed to considered public. I'll have to look into a tee time.

I don't know if I will be excommunicated from the site, but (Reese Jones course and all) I really enjoyed the course.  It has some thrilling tees shots, a couple nice risk / reward tee shots, one or two very good par 5's and a lot of elevation changes.

I seem to remember that they have tremendous twilight rates.

Chris

[George Pazin]

Don't worry, Chris, there are plenty of folks who post on here who like Rees's courses. Many are just not big on his visual style, and even more do not care for his "restorations". But more than a few have praised renovations of his, such as his work at Monterey Peninsula, so you are safe.

Thanks for the info. If you are a western PA guy and would like to tee it up sometime, shoot me a message.

[Shawn Arlia]

Mystic Rock i would agree with. Quicksilver no way. I have not played the other courses, though Oak Tree is on my radar for this summer.

[Jeff Evagues]

I've played 16 of the 18 and I still think Champion Lakes is the best public course in the area. (At $185 I consider Mystic Rock a resort course)

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