Cypress Point 8th Hole

[Matthew Mollica]

I've often been struck by the need for accuracy on this hole.

Having never played it, and only heard of others experiences, or seen photos of the hole,
I understand the landing zone is off camber, and that a drive on the right line, of too long, is not much good,
in that it makes the approach more difficult.

Are there many other holes elsewhere modelled on Cypress Point #8?

Looking at the topography of a course at my home club, there existed a sterling opportunity to creat just such a hole,
yet a rather poor par 5 occupies the land instead

MM

[Emil Weber]

Matthew,

To be honest with you, whenever I see pics of the 8th hole at CPC I think that if I would ever play there, I might think it is the weakest hole on the course. In other words, from the pics and descriptions I've seen, it's the weakest-looking hole on the course.

That might come from my really strong dislike of 90° doglegs. That hole might only be a 70 ° dogleg, but I still don't like it.
One question for all. How can a blind shot, to a front-to-back sloping fairway that bends hard around the corner make for a good hole?

p.S: sorry for the random question, but do you think the 3rd hole at Lost Farm is better than the 4th at Barnbougle? thanks

[Adam Clayman]

On my one and only, my rookie caddie gave me the wrong line. I was to say the least surprised to find my ball on the dune top. My next stayed in the dune, my next was a chip out. Then approach and a putt. A finer bogey is rarely achieved.

Emil, There's the line of instinct and the lines of charm. On this hole, one must aim away from their instinct. That does not make a bad hole.

By this point in the round, the golfer's task, on 8, is unique and because of the blindness, a challenge of mental toughness. The looks from the teeing ground only whett one's appetite for the remainder and if observant enough, clues to the genius of this design.

[Emil Weber]

Adam

I see your point, but if it were on another course, I'm pretty sure a hole like this would be doomed, but this is CPC.

[Tom_Doak]

Emil:

I would tend to agree with you.  The hole at Cypress Point gets a pass because of its beautiful setting, and because the big dune works pretty well for this type of hole ... if you fail to clear it, you can usually find the ball and get a club on it, but there is an appropriate penalty as far as the likelihood of reaching the green.  Most other courses would not have a similar area which would function that well on the inside of the dogleg.

Matthew:

There are only two ways to play the hole at Cypress Point ... one is for yourself or your caddie to know your carry distances and be able to identify the exact line off the tee.  The other is to be able to play a fade so that the shape of your shot corresponds to the angle of the fairway down below.  The former would make it a poor hole, I think, if the latter method were not also available.

[Simon Holt]

I played the latter shot you describe Tom but only as I completely trusted the word of my playing partners.  Pretty sure I hit it at the clubhouse with a fade and I ended up on a level piece of ground of the left hand side of the fairway.

The enevitable talk of driving the green came up and one of the caddies (who is a friend so this is 100% no bs) told me that when he caddied for Tiger there they gave him a line for the green, as accurate yardage as they could and he took Butch Harmons 12' driver and put it on. 

For mere mortals this shot wouldn't work- for mere golf courses, neither would the hole!

[Bob_Huntley]

Tom has it right here, know your carry distance,  pick out a house on the second fairway and let it fly. For the good player the hole is quite easy; for the player of lesser length one must pocket one's ego, aim down the slot left and have a much longer uphill shot to a well guarded green with some diabolical pin placements.

One of the sorriest sights in golf is to hit one which you think is over the dune, only to see the the cascade of sand thrown into the air by the forecaddie to let you know that you are F#^*ed.
Bob

[Jordan Wall]

One of the assistants put it to eight feet off the tee at the employee tournament last year.  It can be done.

The hole is birlliant and exceedingly difficult to be precise enough to really gain an advantage for the angle on your second shot.  To put it on the right half of the fairway, it really requires a bit of luck unless you hit a perfect fade, but I've seen it done several times.  The green opens up a lot from the right side, appropriate since to place your ball there you must challenge the dune accordingly.

Coincidentally, my favorite pin on that green is on the back right shelf - best approached from the left side of the fairway.

The back right pin:

[Alex Miller]

From the pictures I've seen it certainly doesn't seem like a bad hole.


One that I've played that I could compare it to is the 6th at LA North. I think that one is a better hole because you can hold the landing area or drive the green, but the setting at Cypress is obviously superior.

[Jon Wiggett]

QUick question Jordan,

if your ball is within say a foot of the left edge of the green where it first comes in on your photo can you still putt it close to the hole. It looks as though it might not be possible. Is this really desirable should this be the case?

Jon

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I am not the big on the tee shot. However the green complex is wonderful with so many unforseen places to end up after your shot to the green.

[Adam Clayman]

Is it the blindness people have issue with?

How is it any worse (different) from other holes that blind the golfer to the good stuff?

[Jordan Wall]

QUick question Jordan,

if your ball is within say a foot of the left edge of the green where it first comes in on your photo can you still putt it close to the hole. It looks as though it might not be possible. Is this really desirable should this be the case?

Jon

Jon,

It would probably be an impossible putt.  Then again, if you missed that far on the other side of the hole, you'd be in the dune.  Considering your hitting wedge or a 9-iron to that hole, the penalty for missing by 25 yards on either side of that back right pin is appropriate.

Jordan

[TEPaul]

The thing (which is pretty rare in GCA) I just love about holes like this one is it continuously suckers so many golfers into taking some serious risk on the tee shot because they perceive if they pull it off they will inherit a commensurate reward for it. That really isn't the case on this hole which is basically the same theme as some of the other great and deceptive little short par 4s such as Riviera's #10, PV's #8 and #12, Merion's #8 and #10, GMGC's #8, NGLA's #1, PCC's #1, HVGC's #1 etc.

I call great little holes like these ones strategic "fake-out" holes because often a really high risk and aggressive tee shot even if executed well is not better and often worse anyway than playing a very conservative tee shot.

In that vein, the concept theme they all share is that the consevative tee shot does not require a very complicated or long approach anyway! And when these kinds of holes sucker golfers into taking a big risk on the tee shot which even if successful only gets them into a distance range of less or well less than a 100 yards which so few golfers are much good at anyway, I say the hole really does its job as what I call a real strategic/concept "fake out" hole.

[Tom MacWood]

If you have a good caddie, which is fairly certain at CPC, no will try anything stupid on this hole.

[Sean Leary]

I am not the big on the tee shot. However the green complex is wonderful with so many unforseen places to end up after your shot to the green.

+1

[TEPaul]

"If you have a good caddie, which is fairly certain at CPC, no will try anything stupid on this hole."


Tom MacWood:

Are you attending the same writing school as Melvyn Hunter Morrow?

Also, you never answered Shivas's question which he asked a number of times on the Macdonald/Raynor 1910-16 thread about whether you've read the actual minutes of North Shore GC. Any particular reason for that? None of your answers to him seemed very satisfactory, and particularly your last one, wouldn't you say?

VIZ: "Like I said you've obviously not been following the NS thread otherwise you would not continue to make an idiot of yourself."

  

[Kevin Pallier]

MM

I play with a draw and found the shot particularly taxing. Pick a spot on the dune and try to hit over it - hoping for the best. The greensite is superb.

Very loosely one could say it has a similar style to the 3rd at NSW but in the opposite direction. I do re-affirm the term loosely - sharp angled drive then uphill to a narrow entrance to a well protected green.

[Kalen Braley]

I thought the hole was excellent.

- Risk/reward off the tee depending on how much you dare bite off the corner
- You can gamble or play it safe on the approach shot depending on where the pin is
-  One of the neatest and most interesting greens on the course.

I didn't realize #8 was even one that was critiized at CPC, I thought everyone saved it for #1 and 18

[Adam Clayman]

I'm still not understanding how the hole can work so well here, yet according to the expert, won't work elsewhere. Tom Paul's examples are interesting.

[Bill_McBride]

After a couple of rounds at Cypress Point, I think the excellence of this hole is overlooked because the golfer is looking ahead to #9 and the eventual finishing holes along the coastline.

This hole is a perfect example of the relevance of that golf guru Clint Eastwood's advice:  "A man has got to know his limitations."  #8 is a classic case of "don't bite off more than you can chew."   If you do, you won't have much chance for a par.  The green is devilish so birdies are hard earned.  Just aim farther left than you feel you want to, knowing your limitations, and hit a good approach shot. 

I personally think it's a great golf hole.   

[cary lichtenstein]

Both 8 and 9 are short birdie holes. They would not be built today with the adjacent fairways

[Mike Hendren]

I like the tee shot here - a sucker play that Mackenzie employs equally well at Crystal Downs' 18th. 

Mike

[Scott Szabo]

Both 8 and 9 are short birdie holes. They would not be built today with the adjacent fairways

Any similarities here between 8&9 at CPC and 7&8 at Sand Hills?  Never been to CPC, thus the question.

[Adam Clayman]

Scott. I see no similarities other than having an elevated tee to an elevated green.(Cpc's 9th to SH's 7th)  Ballyneal's 7th might be closer to CPC's ninth because of the corresponding topographys(betwix dunes) and the choices the golfer has on how to play the hole.