No. 8 on The Old Course

[Ally Mcintosh]

The "weakest set of par-3s on a great course" has had TOC No.8 repeatedly mentioned as a weak link...

Recently, I've read at least a couple of references to this hole as one of the best par-3s around... Simpson mentioned the fold / ridge in the ground just short and right of the green... I'll try and find the quote to show how he was relating this to strategy... I meant to sit on this hole for a while last month as I've never paid it a whole lot of attention... But my caddying duties overtook and I forgot to spend the time there that I meant to...

Who can tell me why they think 8 at TOC is weak or strong?

[Tony Ristola]

I love the hole for its simplicity of design and its flexibility. On a flat open stretch of land, it's a great concept.

The wind at St.Andrews gives the hole teeth, but inland versions lacking wind can be created with a stronger fall-away green, or a green with more contour, and or a more intimidating bunker.

Downwind with the flag behind the bunker is a near impossible shot to get close, and with the green being so big, you're likely to face a long putt. Those trying to knock it close, by sneaking the shot right or left of the bunker, or straight over in an effort to reduce the length of putt bring the bunker into play.

Flexible, fun, challenging.

[Simon Holt]

Bad hole?  Are they kdding?  The green is awesome.  What everyone thinks is flat is anything but. 

The bunker is visually very intimidating but in all honesty no one should be going in with that little club (unless they chunk it!) I have heard that way back people would chase it up past the bunker.  That is harder to do now with more rough in front but I have landed it short and a good 10 yrads right of the bunker to bounce it on before.  Not quite a run up but to take the sting off the shot downwind.

When the wind is howling down the Eden valley from the West it is a really hard shot to judge.  Hit it out into the wind to hold the shot up and you need to club up significantly.  Turn that shot over just a hair and you ride the wind over the back left and have a downhill pitch/putt into a strong cross wind....not easy by any means!

I will concede that in comparison with 11 it will nearly always come off second best but by no means is it a bad hole.

[Ally Mcintosh]

I have heard that way back people would chase it up past the bunker.  That is harder to do now with more rough in front but I have landed it short and a good 10 yrads right of the bunker to bounce it on before.  Not quite a run up but to take the sting off the shot downwind.

This is what Simpson was getting at with the fold in the ground... I need to locate that paragraph of his...

It doesn't surprise me there is rough there now... There is rough grown in all around the old course... Even on 11, there is rough on the hill left of 'Strath' that should be bare and feed either in to 'Hill' or on to the green. Or for that matter in to 'Strath' or back down the slope.

There are bunkers in the rough all over the outward nine also. Ones that were designed to have balls feeding in to them.

[Simon Holt]

I cant believe they have rough to the left of strath???  There has been a little rough between Hill and the green for a while now but sure the badly hit run up shot on 11 needs to be in danger of swinging left to right into Strath.  Bizarre.

[Scott Macpherson]

Simon,

There is no rough left of Strath (i.e. between Strath and Hill bunkers). Played there on Saturday and came face to face with that pit. There is often some mottled rough around the fringes of Hill bunker however.

The 8th hole is often misunderstood. It can be quite devilish depending on the wind, green firmness and pin position. In the last 4 Open Championships (1990, '95, '00, '05) is has played the 9th, 5th, 8th and 8th hardest hole. I do like the idea of being able to run the ball into the green, but the gap between the bunker at the front left of the green (referred to as the 'short hole bunker' by A.Mackenzie), and the drop off to the right is quite narrow – only perhaps 8 yards wide – and is the main path used by golfers to get to the green. But when the hole is playing downwind and the flag is at the front, the idea of running the ball in is tempting.  If, in the last 5 yards before the green, this approach didn't slope down to the green so much, I am sure I would have tried it more often.

scott

[Anthony Gray]

  The negative is that the miss short is very penel. And if you go long protecting the short miss you can find the bunker. Th emain thing that hurts it is its look. It is just unappealing from the tee. Semi-blind green over a buch of hay. If you get a holein one you'll never see it. That first par 3 at Rustic Canyon has a similiar feel.

  Anthony

[Ally Mcintosh]

I cant believe they have rough to the left of strath???  There has been a little rough between Hill and the green for a while now but sure the badly hit run up shot on 11 needs to be in danger of swinging left to right into Strath.  Bizarre.

Sorry Simon - I wasn't very clear.

The rough is not directly to the left of 'Strath' but last time I looked it did cover the entire small mound that encompasses the face of 'Hill' and over in towards the run up. It certainly was affecting a shot that could swing round from left to right.

I am not sure if this has grown in recent times. It is still misplaced however and would have certainly been fairway cut at some point relatively recently.

Note there is still fairway cut for a few yards left of Strath...

EDIT - Scott's post makes me think this might have been cut back... Anyone got a photo?

[Bill_McBride]

I'm one of those "chunks" who misclubbed when the pin was directly behind the bunker last time there and made six flailing around in that small but deep nightmare.

I don't think it is an easy 3 at all.  I'm sure it was MacDonald's model for the Short hole:  huge green, short iron test of accuracy.

[Gary Slatter]

Simon,

There is no rough left of Strath (i.e. between Strath and Hill bunkers). Played there on Saturday and came face to face with that pit. There is often some mottled rough around the fringes of Hill bunker however.

The 8th hole is often misunderstood. It can be quite devilish depending on the wind, green firmness and pin position. In the last 4 Open Championships (1990, '95, '00, '05) is has played the 9th, 5th, 8th and 8th hardest hole. I do like the idea of being able to run the ball into the green, but the gap between the bunker at the front left of the green (referred to as the 'short hole bunker' by A.Mackenzie), and the drop off to the right is quite narrow – only perhaps 8 yards wide – and is the main path used by golfers to get to the green. But when the hole is playing downwind and the flag is at the front, the idea of running the ball in is tempting.  If, in the last 5 yards before the green, this approach didn't slope down to the green so much, I am sure I would have tried it more often.

scott

I agree the 8th is often misunderstood, it's a really challenging par three.  I prefer it playing longer in the winter months but often you have to try to land the ball just short to get a reasonable chance at birdie.   With the rough and bunker trying to land short is risky, but necessary.
It can be a wedge or a three iron, and if 8 is playing short you can start worrying about number 11.  Very large difficult green, although most putts are straight, they never look it.   Front and left pin placements are the most fun.

[Anthony Gray]

  I like to play to the 9th tee box and then 2 putt. It takes the trouble out of the way.

  Anthony

[Patrick Glynn]

I do see that there are some nice features on this hole (and it is nowhere near as poor a hole as 9) but I definitely would not be writing home about it.

Played TOC again there a couple of weeks back. Our fourball all hit mediocre tee shots (average handicap - 10) to 40+ feet and all 2 putted. No huge danger as long as you hit enough club to carry the bunker short!