The Lakes GC (Australia)

[Kevin Pallier]

Chris

Absoloutely - I see a lot of similarities in the style of sand exposure at the Lakes to that at Friars Head.

[Matt Day]

great photos, are those flags shorter than normal and of so what's the reasoning for them?

how's the pig face look?

[Kevin Pallier]

Matt

I would hope Mike can answer your questions on same. Maybe the club was wanting to differentiate itself ?

[Kevin Pallier]

10th P4 (New 314m / Old 325m)
This was and remains a tough short P4. It is all about the tee shot for mine and the tightness off the tee has remained. I don't think I have ever hit driver off this tee.



The green has also remained pretty much the same in style with a strong back to front slope.



11th P5 (New 528m / Old 522m)

I've always liked the layout of this P5 for mine it’s now close to the best P5 in Australia

The trees near the water on the drive have been removed and there has been some subtle fairway bunkering changes. All for the better in my mind.

Drive



New Approach



Old Approach



The biggest difference is at the green where there is a huge "gouge" in the mid to front LH portion and the green is also located closer to the water.

New Green (front)



Gouge



One has to be at the right distance with one's approach otherwise a very difficult putt awaits.

12th P4 (New 409m / Old 390m)
This has always been a long hole with a tough tight drive.



The area in the rough to the right of the driving zone over the bunker has been cleared somewhat but the biggest change is at the green.

It has been moved back and now a more skyline shot in awaits. There is a huge bailout area to the left which is a good move on such a long hole.

[Neil_Crafter]

Clayts
The course looks great and a big improvement on what was there, so well done. Look forward to seeing it in the flesh one day soon. Just a Q - how is the fescue holding up in the Sydney climate? As I understand it there were plenty of doomsayers saying that it wouldn't work. The fescue really adds something IMO.

[Mike_Clayton]

Neil,

The fescue is doing decently. It will take some learning for the staff in terms of management but it adds to the look of the bunkers.
The flags were shorther because I always like that they always used short flags at The Open. I made the holes look harder - at least to me -  because the shots looked longer than they were.

I think it is better than it was - but they are usually 30% at least who think you have made a mess.

[Scott Macpherson]

Hey Chainsaw,

Looks good. This is the first time I have seen the photos, and the first thing that hit me was the short flags (funny what grabs your eye first...) How tall are they? 5 foot?  Couldn't you get baskets for the top of them too? (That really would have been different!)

Second thing, I imagine all that white sand in the rough is the natural soils is it? Are the greens native as well?

Look forward to seeing you over here in the summer.

Scott

[Mike_Clayton]

Scott,

I assume you are back there by now?
Yes and yes are the answers to the questions about the sand.
The common line about The Lakes was that the holes under the freeway were no good because the land was poor.Nothing could have been further from the truth.
It was all sand and with fantastic natural undulations - and Devlin/Von Hagge had routed good holes on a quite small piece of land.
It was not so small however when it was opened up.
I am not sure how tall the flags are - my guess would be somewhere between 5 and 6 feet.

[Michael Taylor]

I look forward to seeing the discussion about the merits of the next hole.

Pup

[Kevin Pallier]

13th P4 (New 288m / Old 292m)

The changes to this hole will probably cause the most controversy…..

There are two teeing boxes – a new one to the back of #12 and the old tee box remains (with a rugged looking Bandon Dunes style fence inserted – this style is also on a few other tees as well)



Two large trees on the drive right were recently cleared and give a clear view of the green from the tee – however one has to remember there is a small pond right down in the driving zone.



The hole now plays much straighter downhill and driver has always been an option – much moreso now. I remember many of the pro's having a crack at the green the last time a pro tournament was there. There is now an interesting little spine in the fairway just short of the green which will propel balls to the left or right short of the green.



The green itself has been moved left and now resembles similar characteristics to Woodlands # 4 save for topography differences (Woodlands is on much flatter terrain) and the more significant back to front slope on The Lakes version.

This hole is all about the approach shot as the front of the green has a severe fall off on either side.

I tried the iron approach off the tee for a short wedge in the first time I played it. The second time I played it I hit driver and only had a very short flop shot onto the green. Each to their own - though kikuyu adds a significant degree of complexity to the playability of the hole.

The front neck is quite narrow and with a front pin I wouldn't be surprised to see many players go from side to side……I’m sure there are many who don’t like the new hole.

[Andy Gray]

When I was there in December the trees were still there... I must say it looks a lot better and much more spacious without them.

[Mike_Clayton]

•    …every hole must have individuality and be sound. Often it is necessary to get from one section to another over ground which is not suited to the easiest construction, but that troublesome hole must be made to stand right up in meeting with the others, and if it has not got anything about it that might make it respectable, it has got to have quality knocked into it until it can hold its head up in polite society.
A.W. TILLINGHAST


This was the quote we used at the head of the section of the masterplan that dealt with the 13th hole.
The old hole was not a good one. Drives shorther than 180 yards forced players to hit a short iron up and over a big fig tree that blocked the view of the green.You could play far to the outside of the dogleg to get a look but that seemed to make no strategic sense on a short par four with water on the inside corner.

Sergio Garcia was one who drove onto the green here in a big event but that shot was downhill, completely blind - and reckless.
The green moved out from behind the trees - trees that could not be removed - and it created a hole that is drivable with a perfect tee shot. The fairway is really wide - maybe 70 yards from side to side - but it is important to drive into a place where the pitch is played straight up the line of the green.Anything from the sides is much more difficult - and many seem to criticise the hole because of that.
The hole is hardly complicated - unless you get out of position.It's a long iron and a pitch but both need to be played competently - especially the pitch.

It will be especially interesting to see how players handle the questions the holes poses during the Australian Open at the end of the year.

[Kevin Pallier]

Mike

Last time I was there - some work was being done to the edges of the green ? an attempt to "soften them" perhaps or is the design intent to have them to feed off sharply to to the drop off areas ?

[Sean_A]

Mr Pallier

Put the phone down and get on with the job.  You can't get me into the thread and leave me hangin' like this.  It just isn't cricket.

Ciao

[Kevin Pallier]

Sorry to keep you hanging Sean....have been "busy"  

14th P5 (New 502m / Old 478m)

The strategies in this hole remain virtually the same save for the moving of the “spare (ladies)” green from down next to the water to up to on top of the hill right.

The most significant change to this hole is the new green across the water.

I don't know what Mike Clayton was on at the time but he has created close to the biggest and most movement I've seen in a green in Australia. It has to be seen to be believed !!

In his own words it is "the biggest and wildest green on the course" (Understatement indeed)     

We played from the very back tees (up against the fence) and a player in our group was able to land on the green in two so the pros / longer hitters will be able to do the same - without having to contend with bunkers just over the water.

Drive


Mid


There will be many a 3putt or more on this green with its tiers / side slopes / gouges etc

Green from back


New Green



15th P3 (New 184m / Old 190m)

I wasn't a big fan of the old P3 and the new one is somewhat of an improvement but still has its flaws for mine.

It has "Redan style" characteristics – angled front to back sloping green / protection right and mid-to-back left. To get at a front pin you have to land the ball short and again with kikuyu it's not always a given that the ball will react the way you intended it to which is its biggest drawback for mine. The area would need to be maintained very firm to work best.



NB: Note the clearing of some the rough area to the right off the drive on #12



Once on the green it has 3 distinct shelves and I think the hole has much more interest than its predecessor.

[Michael Taylor]

Indeed the 14th green is the biggest green I've seen in my life. And the slopes on it are massive!

I cannot wait to see the Aus Open here at the end of the year. It will be very interesting indeed, however finishing with a par 3 just doesn't seem right to me.

Pup

[Mike_Clayton]

Mike,

I know some of the R and A officials who were down for the Open Championship qualifying thought they would have finished at 17 - and started at 18. I think it is a lot of messing around - there is not so much room around the 17th green - and there have been a lot of really good finishes to big events on that 18th green.

[Kevin Pallier]

Mike

What was the "inspiration" behind the 14th green ?

I must admit I had a very quick look at the masterplan and it seemed that the drawing of the green on it didn't seem to be anywhere near as big as that to which is now on the land ?

[Kevin Pallier]

16th P4 (New 396m / Old 391m)

A new tee has been inserted the back of #15 and creates a much better hole from this angle IMO – it should be used more so.



The old tee remains and the second shot across the water is always going to be a challenge – the narrow bailout area left also remains.

A new bigger green has been built with a very interesting front right section.

Old approach



New approach



New Green from the back - I like the new green particularly the front right section



This has always been a very difficult hole with the long approach shot across water and remains as such.


17th P5 (New 454m / Old 446m)

This hole remains a double water carry but the angle of the green is so much better now and favours an approach from the "aggressive" left instead of the "soft" right.

Drive (1st carry)



2nd Shot (2nd carry)



Approach



Greensite



18th P3 (New 191m / Old 177m)

This is a vast improvement on what was there previously. The green has been shifted left and is no longer an all carry long club to a “fishbowl”.



One can try and play a run-in if one chooses though there is a front left hollow to contend with + a tiered green and it's a much better hole as a result.



I don’t think there are too many “Tournament” courses that have a P3 for both the 9th and 18th holes ?

Summary:
MC has done a sterling job and elevated The Lakes to heights I'd suggest it hasn't been too for some time now. It's certainly worth a visit when in Sydney and a perfect complement to NSW GC as a must see IMO.

The F9 has improved immensely and is no longer a poor cousin to the B9. In fact - it probably has more interest than the B9 now.

I wish I had some more pictures of the old holes for more comparisons but hopefully you get an idea of the "new" and certainly improved Lakes Golf Club.

[Michael Taylor]

Thanks for the tour Kevin.

Pup

[Kevin Pallier]

Cheers Michael

I'm hoping Mike may answer the questions I raised about the 13th and 14th holes - if / when he gets a chance ? Posts # 37 and # 42

[Richard Apperly]

Course is looking fabulous. Alas, I never managed to play the first incarnation of the old Lakes GC.

[Mike_Clayton]

Kevin,

The 14th hole has such a massive piece of land over the water and the old green was quite small and surrounded by bunkers.
We thought the space was ideal for a huge green - one big enough to change the shot completely depending where the pin was cut.
It is also big enough to change the place where it is best to lay-up if you choose not to carry the water with the second shot - i.e the majority of people who play the hole.
Now that the green comes down close to the water there is the temptation to get close to a pin cut close to the water - somewhat like 13 at Augusta which, the story goes, was the model for the original Von Hagge/Devlin hole.
That was never the case because you had to carry water and sand before you got to the green.

Richard.
Jack Newton told me the original course - pre 1970 - was fantastic and it would have been great to have seen it.
Are you any relation to the famed Eric Apperly ?

[Michael Taylor]

Mike,

I think I read somewhere that Richard is indeed related to Eric. I may be wrong however.

Kevin/Mike,

For the Australian Open, do you think anyone will try and attempt the double water carry on 17? What is the distance roughly?

Pup

[Mike_Clayton]

Mike,

It is about 340 yards to carry the second lot of water - so it's possible but not if you are playing seriously. If you are that long you can reach the green with a 4 iron from short of the water.

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