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A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Played at Echelon for the first time today, and I'm very curious to know what others who might have played it thought.

I had heard mostly negative reports, but I was pleasantly surprised for the most part.  Echelon is a Rees Jones layout, now about 4 yrs. old, that was built originally as the Georgia Tech Club, but ownership and the name have changed.  The course is now allowing public play, and goes 7558 from the tips with 77.8/154 at that distance!

The second set of tees was 7076 (74.9/150), so we played it at 6552, where it was still 71.9/139.  The course turned out to be every bit that tough, too.  I enjoyed the round (though I got my butt kicked by the golf course!) but I can see why some of my older friends/lesser players really don't like the place.

Echelon is on a beautiful piece of land, and there is a LOT of land there.  I liked the front nine a lot; the back was a bit much, primarily because of extreme elevation changes.  #14 and #15 run parallel, downhill on 14 then back up on 15; I would guess the elevation change to be over 100' on each hole!  15 is a 481 yd. par 5 from the tees we played, and is the most extreme uphill hole that I have ever played, I believe. 

On the whole, Echelon is very demanding off the tee.  With average to smallish greens that more-than-average contour, it is just very tough to hit a lot of greens if you are off the fairway even by a little.  It was a surprisingly narrow driving course given that the property covers 600 acres.   But it was a terrific challenge, and, generally a pleasure to play.

The biggest negative was the bunkering, which will come as no surprise to many on this site given that we are talking about a Rees Jones course.  By the middle of the round, I was wishing that I had kept count of the total number of bunkers, but it has to be pushing 100.  Not only are there a lot of bunkers, but they are:
     a. huge
     b. deep
     c. elaborate/winding
I would imagine that maintaining the bunkers is a massive expense for the course, and I'd bet the day will come when they take out many of them and make many, many others smaller.  There were places in bunkers that were so far from the green that only very, very poor players could have possibly ended up there, and putting them in a bunker that far from the green is unnecessary.

Curious to know what others who have seen the course think.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Echelon GC (formerly Georgia Tech Club) What do you think?
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2010, 06:47:33 PM »
I am not a huge fan of the course...but I've only played it one time and it was when the club was right in the middle of their "issues" and the course was maintained at an awful level.

Parking the maintenance issues off to the side, I thought the back nine was a bit goofy.  Too many elevations changes and too much change in those elevations.  For example, I can't remember what hole it was but it was on the back nine and I hit a decent drive...nothing great, but ok...and it went over 300 yards (due to the downhill elevation change) and I had a wedge into the green.   That hole was soon followed (maybe the next hole, I can't recall specifically) by a severely uphill hole that was blind in spots.  And these aren't the only big elevation changes on the course.  One or two holes with major elevation changes is ok I guess but Echelon was simply too much for my taste.

The property is  beautiful and I am sure if the maintenance is kept up it could  be great looking, but as for a test of golf it just isn't my style and/or my favorite.

But of course that is just my opinion and I am sure I played it at its worst.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Echelon GC (formerly Georgia Tech Club) What do you think?
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2010, 07:42:30 PM »
I am not a huge fan of the course...but I've only played it one time and it was when the club was right in the middle of their "issues" and the course was maintained at an awful level.

Parking the maintenance issues off to the side, I thought the back nine was a bit goofy.  Too many elevations changes and too much change in those elevations.  For example, I can't remember what hole it was but it was on the back nine and I hit a decent drive...nothing great, but ok...and it went over 300 yards (due to the downhill elevation change) and I had a wedge into the green.   That hole was soon followed (maybe the next hole, I can't recall specifically) by a severely uphill hole that was blind in spots.  And these aren't the only big elevation changes on the course.  One or two holes with major elevation changes is ok I guess but Echelon was simply too much for my taste.

The property is  beautiful and I am sure if the maintenance is kept up it could  be great looking, but as for a test of golf it just isn't my style and/or my favorite.

But of course that is just my opinion and I am sure I played it at its worst.

Mac
You are describing 14 and 15.  As I said, 15 is the most severely uphill hole I've ever played. 

I think most players will be ambivalent about Echelon.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Evan Fleisher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Echelon GC (formerly Georgia Tech Club) What do you think?
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2010, 08:51:47 PM »
I've never played it, but I like the old name better.  8)

GO JACKETS!
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

Chris Cupit

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Echelon GC (formerly Georgia Tech Club) What do you think?
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2010, 09:00:38 PM »
Ok.  I shouldn't say this but I think the course is an almost perfect example of a Doak 0.  Let me explain because I know everyone will say "it's not that bad, it has some good holes, it's in great shape....." BUT if I remember correctly (and that's a big IF) a Doak zero can be characterized as a course that spend ridiculous sums of money, has some absolutely horrific architecture, was built by someone who should have known better and overall, things would have been better if the course had never been built.

That is Echelon.

First, the club--bad, very bad idea--The Georgia Tech Club that would appeal to a very small alumni base and locate the course so out of the way that its a solid hour from most anywhere!  If you went to any other school, would you really want portions of your money going to support a different school?  That was the basic idea at first.  That collapsed almost at once and the course took the name Echelon. 

Right now the blessing is that almost no amenities have been built (unlike the 60,000 sq ft Manor 10 minutes down the road).  I was talking to the operator (Affiniti Golf) and one very good idea would be to literally build a shack similar to the shack in the old USGA commercials featuring the guys waiting out the rain delay. 

Have an absolute no frills place where a one man starter checks you in and sells a hot dog or coke kind of thing.  This idea came after a discussion predicated on this question:  "If you could buy this course for $1, could you make the numbers work"! 

Now to the course:
It has been in very good shape.  Of course when it opened with a $1M + budget it was phenomenal.  The greens were firm and fast, the drought meant the fairways were also nice, tight and fast.  The staff that was there did a great job and then while waiting to sell all thouse $50k memberships, the bottom fell out of the market.

The Rees Jones design is on some of the steepest, least golf friendly land that as an amateur I could imagine trying to build on.  The first eight holes are decent though similar with a hillside, large cut for a level fairway and then another slide down to a lake or gully. 

BTW, the range reminded me of the back bowls of Vail.  Huge round expanse that is like hitting off a cliff--can you even see a ball land unless you hit it 150?  If you want to practice your wedges, you would never see them land!

#9 begins the incredible uphill trudge.  Blind, uphill followed by straight down a ski slope.  Lather, rinse, repeat.
The entire back nine was so hilly and so similar that I can't recall that much and I usually remember holes I play.  Many if not all the holes play 3-4 shots longer or shorter depending on if you are ascending or descending K3! ;)

I played with a 15-18 handicap golfer from tees I'm guessing at around 6500 or so.  The golf course was absolutely unplayable for him.  #11 the par three was long even from the up tees--around 540 (which for the up tees is long).

This 15 who can carry the ball 210 had zero chance of getting over the 100% carry wetlands in front and to his left.  The next shot after he dropped was to either try and hit it 275 in the air to the fairway by the green or lay up by hitting a 9 iron or wedge short of the wetlands crossing in front.  The ravine is sooo wide you really have to lay up to the 160-175 yard area to be safe.  Then his thrid (he dropped a ball as he had long since given up) shot was a 5 iron over a ravine to a green going away from him toward that same ravine along the left side of the green :(  Bad, bad golf hole.  I think its 600 yards from the tips.  (The previous hole was 400 or so that was almost driveable as it was so downhill.

The other par 5 is straight up hill.  It was of course preceded by the parallel hole going down hill.  The downhill 440 par 4 was a driver or three wood and a wedge.  The 490 yard par 5 was unreachable!  I watched the same 15 handicapper in what would fairly be described as drought conditions have his ball approach one of the tiers of the fairway, not make it and roll backwards down the hill at least 80 yards!!

The two par threes on the back were very nice.

18 was another killer uphill slog for most everyone.  I know there was a wetland all down the right and next to the green.  Was it left off the tee as well?  Course finished with a blind, uphill approach to a tightly guarded green--deep bunkers left, hill and wetlands on the right.

For the millions and millions spent here whoever bought in got a raw deal.

A.G.--if you lived in Roswell in the northern burbs, and had I'm guessing a 40 minute drive there, what would you go and pay for that experience?

I will say I'm surprised to hear conditioning may have been an issue--the place was pristine when I was there.  I think a lot of people would pay $50-$70 for a course in great shape because I think most people care more about the GPS on the carts than they do the actual architecture. 

I will say I'm shocked you enjoyed it so much.  I'm also surprised you thought the land was beautiful.  Actually I think it is a pretty piece of land but for a golf course??  You lost me on that one.   

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Echelon GC (formerly Georgia Tech Club) What do you think?
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2010, 10:25:44 PM »
Chris,
I only live a few minutes away from Echelon; paid $59 playing as a guest of an Alpharetta Ath. Club member (I've dropped out of AAC and play at Crystal Falls now).  The "normal" Friday rate is $89, which explains why I haven't been there before this.  I would play Echelon often ONLY if it were in the $35 weekday, $50 weekend range, which it never will be, and if I could walk, which would be possible on the front, but 100% impossible on the back.  You obviously could make a far better guess than I could, but I'd guess the greens fees will have to stay very high if only to recoup the maintenance costs from the bunkers!

I'd characterize myself as "pleasantly surprised" by Echelon because:
     a. I had heard such uniformly bad reviews, mostly from players like your friend with 15 handicaps, so my expectations were very, very low
     b. it was a drop-dead gorgeous day, and I was NOT at work
     c. it IS a beautiful piece of nature, which I enjoy even when it doesn't make for an esp. good golf course

I think your assessment that the first 8 holes are the best part of the course is dead on, and I didn't mind #9 either.  #10 was o.k., though weird for the elevation change, and the left side fairway bunkers are much, much too big, which is a theme throughout the golf course.

I didn't mind #11 as much as you did; I do think it would become boring for most golfers because there is NO risk-reward decision.  One way to play it, and one way only.  #15 was a far worse hole in my view, with #18 not far behind.  I was exhausted playing #15, and I'm in good shape and we were riding!

It isn't a horrible golf course; it IS way, way overpriced and it IS too difficult to be enough fun to get people to come back often.  I'll be curious to see what Affiniti does with it in the long run, because there were very, very few golfers on the course today on a beautiful spring Friday.  We teed off at 9, and there were only two other groups out, and when we finished right at 1, there still weren't many cars in the parking lot.

"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Kenny Baer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Echelon GC (formerly Georgia Tech Club) What do you think?
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2010, 11:33:04 PM »
It is the worst course I have ever played that was built to be a high end golf course. Ditto all the reasons Chris said, when i played it it was also probably the finest conditioned course I had seen with Bermud fairways.

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Echelon GC (formerly Georgia Tech Club) What do you think?
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2010, 03:01:56 PM »
It is the worst course I have ever played that was built to be a high end golf course. Ditto all the reasons Chris said, when i played it it was also probably the finest conditioned course I had seen with Bermud fairways.

Kenny,
This is a fair assessment of the situation.  I played it relatively cheaply; if I had paid $90, or if I had a house in there, I think my feelings about the course would be just as negative as yours.  As I said, if it was a $35 green/cart course, it would be fine. 

In any event, it is NOT a course that one would look forward to playing every day; the back nine is far too severe to be enjoyable three or four times a week.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Echelon GC (formerly Georgia Tech Club) What do you think?
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2010, 04:15:45 PM »
What does it say about everybody involved with this project that such a lousy course could be built for so much money?

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Echelon GC (formerly Georgia Tech Club) What do you think?
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2010, 10:17:00 AM »
What does it say about everybody involved with this project that such a lousy course could be built for so much money?

Bill,
You should see the houses in the development, most of which are unoccupied.  It will be a long, long time before anything like Echelon will be built again, I would guess.

Again, though, I think Echelon is only "lousy" in the sense that it is, as Kenny Baer correctly wrote, very high end.  The front nine is fine; the back nine is just bad land for golf.  If it was a $35 daily fee course, which it most certainly is not, it would be o.k. though much too difficult.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Echelon GC (formerly Georgia Tech Club) What do you think?
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2010, 10:19:24 AM »
Sounds like it could be the poster child for the end of an era.