Colt's Cunning CAMBERLEY HEATH

[Steffen Villadsen]

Thank you for the excellent review, Sean.

I am planning a trip to Surrey in 2013 and will be sure to take Camberley Heath into consideration for the itinerary.

Due to budget restrictions we will probably have to pick from below the top shelf so any other tips on Surrey courses to play would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers.

[John Kirk]

Great photo essay, Sean.  I missed this the first time around.  What a beautiful golf course!

[Sean_A]

Steffan

What Brian said plus Huntercombe - its a strech to call it London, but worth some effort to find.  I spose the same is true of West Sussex.

A  few more  which I am told by good folks are worth seeing. 

Blackmoor and Hindhead - same neighbourhood as Liphook
Reigate Heath

Threadkiller - cheers.

Ciao

[Steffen Villadsen]

Sean,

Thank you for the input.

I'll be sure to take your advice into account when deciding the final itinerary.

Sorry for the slight hi-jack of the tread.

Now back to Camberley Heath 

[Sean_A]

I see Frank Pont is at it again. This time, it looks like a much needed bunker job for Camberley.  I wonder if Frank can pursuade the club to lose the Koi pond 

http://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/Article/Frank-Pont-to-oversee-restoration-of-Camberley-Heath-Golf-Club-course/3082/Default.aspx#.U1TtUPldXHQ

Ciao

[jvisser]

Hi Sean,

Great presentation again! I'll add it to my ever growing list of courses that I have to play in the UK.
Even though I've been to the UK quite a bit the last few years the list seems to be growing faster
than I can tick them off...

Concerning Frank's involvement at Camberley, I'm pretty sure he'll try. At my former course
he expressed his feelings towards water on heathland courses quite clearly.
Actually, now that the Hoge Kleij has had some time to settle into its restoration, I'm really
happy about the way it turned out!

Cheers,

    Jan

[Frank Pont]

I see Frank Pont is at it again.  This time, it looks like a much needed bunker job for Camberley.  I wonder if Frank can pursuade the club to lose the Koi pond  

http://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/Article/Frank-Pont-to-oversee-restoration-of-Camberley-Heath-Golf-Club-course/3082/Default.aspx#.U1TtUPldXHQ

Ciao

Sean, do not worry about the pond, its days are numbered.

[Paul Gray]

As ever, superb review.

I played Camberley for the first and only time last year and found it to be a joy, the 2nd and the 18th immediately banked in the memory as two of my very favourite holes. Perhaps it has a few too many pedestrian holes to be held in higher regard but I for one think it provides a serious amount of fun.

Strangely enough, because it usually drives me mad, the mounding didn't offend. The pond on 16 however, though I knew it was coming, still stood out as an oddity.

[Frank Pont]

Currently working on the bunker plan for the course, we have old aerials that clearly show that many bunkers have been added or repositioned, often not improving the holes.

The other interesting fact is that the club has information that many of the greens were flattened several years after Colt left because the members felt that some of the greens were too undulating. Obviously green 2 wasn't one of them....

Current course manager Nick Paris is doing a stellar job creating the conditions to get wider corridors, better viewing lines and the heather back around the course. He totally gets it.

[Duncan Cheslett]

How prescient that this thread should have been re-activated.

I will be visiting Camberley Heath in September as part of the MacKenzie team hoping to demolish the Colt mob for "The Partners' Salver".

I knew nothing of the place but it looks like we're in for a treat!

[Martin Toal]

I see Frank Pont is at it again.  This time, it looks like a much needed bunker job for Camberley.  I wonder if Frank can pursuade the club to lose the Koi pond  

http://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/Article/Frank-Pont-to-oversee-restoration-of-Camberley-Heath-Golf-Club-course/3082/Default.aspx#.U1TtUPldXHQ

Ciao

Sean, do not worry about the pond, its days are numbered.

Good news, the pond is an atrocity on an otherwise interesting and authentic course.

I don't suppose you could raise the 18th fairway by about 40 feet?

[Frank Pont]

I see Frank Pont is at it again.  This time, it looks like a much needed bunker job for Camberley.  I wonder if Frank can pursuade the club to lose the Koi pond  

http://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/Article/Frank-Pont-to-oversee-restoration-of-Camberley-Heath-Golf-Club-course/3082/Default.aspx#.U1TtUPldXHQ

Ciao

Sean, do not worry about the pond, its days are numbered.

Good news, the pond is an atrocity on an otherwise interesting and authentic course.

I don't suppose you could raise the 18th fairway by about 40 feet?

No, that would be more in line with the changes the former Japanese owners made to the course 

[Sean_A]

I see Frank Pont is at it again.  This time, it looks like a much needed bunker job for Camberley.  I wonder if Frank can pursuade the club to lose the Koi pond  

http://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/Article/Frank-Pont-to-oversee-restoration-of-Camberley-Heath-Golf-Club-course/3082/Default.aspx#.U1TtUPldXHQ

Ciao

Sean, do not worry about the pond, its days are numbered.

Good news, the pond is an atrocity on an otherwise interesting and authentic course.

I don't suppose you could raise the 18th fairway by about 40 feet?

No, that would be more in line with the changes the former Japanese owners made to the course 

Thanks Frank.

Martin, I like the severe dichotomy of choices on the 18th; neither feels cozy.  I always say that all courses need to make golfers feel awkward a few times a round.

Ciao

[Sean_A]

I see Frank is making heavy moves at Camberley, he even has his ugly mug posted about the place    Anyway, lets hope he can sort some irritating bunkers out, the dreadful pond and clear up the greens a bit..they are too soft.  See the updated tour.

Ciao

[Paul Gray]

I see Frank is making heavy moves at Camberley, he even has his ugly mug posted about the place    Anyway, lets hope he can sort some irritating bunkers out, the dreadful pond and clear up the greens a bit..they are too soft.  See the updated tour.

Ciao

Updated tour, Sean? Am I being particularly stupid, blind or both? 

[Frank Pont]

Sean,

I will post the before/after photo montages I did for the club for the 4 par 3 holes we will be tackling this Autumn.

First is hole 2, maybe my favourite of the one-shotters, with hole 14.



The current hole.



The hole with restored bunkers and a lot of wood cleared. (my apologies for my limited skills with Photoshop, but I'm sure George Waters will make it look very nice in reality)

[Frank Pont]

And here hole 14 before



and after restoring the original seven bunkers

[Frank Pont]

Hole 11 now



and after





and hole 8 now



and after

[Bill_McBride]

Frank, where are you sending the water from that pond?    Is it currently an irrigation pond?

[Frank Pont]

Frank, where are you sending the water from that pond?    Is it currently an irrigation pond?

The pond lies at the highest point of the property, and had to be sealed to keep the water there.
The ground water table is probably 60-80 yards deep.
So breaking the seal will take care of the water.
It isn't an irrigation pond either.

[Paul Gray]

Not surprisingly, looking excellent. I do like Camberley. Particularly pleasing to see the simple measure of reintroducing fairway cut around the greens and thereby removing the horrible layered cut lines.

[Sean_A]

Frank

I am not convinced splitting the two bunkers left on #8 looks or will play better than what is in the ground now.  What is the reason for the split?

Is there any plan for firming up the greens?

Ciao

[Frank Pont]

Frank

I am not convinced splitting the two bunkers left on #8 looks or will play better than what is in the ground now.  What is the reason for the split?

Ciao

Sean,

Historic pics show two bunkers left, one right. Shaping will be more irregular to what I show here.

I am at CH tomorrow evening, will ask about the greens.

[Sean_A]

Thanks Frank.  I understand that you likely have a brief for certain work.  However, I can't help but wonder if the focus can sometimes be misplaced.  I understand the bunkering is a mish mash job, but to me the most important issues to consider are the soft greens and tree work.  Assuming there is only so much money in the pot, getting the priorities straight is important.  We talk about the bunker on 8 and that is incredibly low on any list of work I would think important to do at CH.  I realize this is your livelihood, but I find it very surprising that greens and making sure sunlight hits the greens aren't the top priorities.  Of course, that is coming from the PoV that bunkering is in the main about looks if the placement is going to be altered much.  Focusing so much on bunkers is a worrying trend.

Ciao

[Paul Gray]

Sean,

I'd usually agree with you on any style vs substance argument but I do think there's actually architecturally relevant benefit to replacing one rather bland oversized trap with two or three smaller and more penal offerings. And minor though it may seem, I suspect there are cost benefits to be had by not simply building one vast hazard after another. Those bits of turf between small bunkers represent a saving on sand.