Mickelson v Norman

[Kevin Pallier]

Both aggressive players....one's exciting to watch.....both have had their highs and lows in Major tournaments....who would you rate the better golfer ? Why ?

[Kalen Braley]

Phil,

Double the amount of majors won and almost double the amount of PGA tour wins as well.

[Mark_F]

Both aggressive players....one's exciting to watch.....both have had their highs and lows in Major tournaments....who would you rate the better golfer ? Why ?

Norman won all around the world multiple times, on all sorts of courses, in all possible conditions.

Mickelson only plys his trade in on the sanitised US PGA Tour, apart from maybe two OS sojourns a year.

Norman number one for years, so he was consistently there, taking back the position from the likes of Faldo and Price during their brief periods at the top - and he did it with the old equipment.

[Sean Leary]

Both aggressive players....one's exciting to watch.....both have had their highs and lows in Major tournaments....who would you rate the better golfer ? Why ?

Norman won all around the world multiple times, on all sorts of courses, in all possible conditions.

Mickelson only plys his trade in on the sanitised US PGA Tour, apart from maybe two OS sojourns a year.

Norman number one for years, so he was consistently there, taking back the position from the likes of Faldo and Price during their brief periods at the top - and he did it with the old equipment.

I didn't realize that Faldo and Price won back then with modern equipment. Where did they get it? Back to the Future DeLorean?

[Garland Bayley]

Mark,

Let's compare meltdowns at the Masters. Oh, wait. That category belongs to Greg. Never mind.

[mark chalfant]

I need to sleep on this.......


some U. S. A. tour stats

Greg  career scoring average    68.40      21 PGA  wins          top tens   139   out of  351 starts

Phil    career scoring average    68.17      37  PGA  wins        top tens:   143   of      402 

[Kevin Pallier]

Mark,

Let's compare meltdowns at the Masters. Oh, wait. That category belongs to Greg. Never mind.

Gayland

Lets not forget Mickelson's 5 US Open R/Ups as well incl. his Winged Foot meltdown 

[Sean Leary]

If Norman didn't have an incredible ability to find ways to lose and get beat by some absurd shots in majors, he probably would be considered the better player. But he did, and history is judged by majors so Mickelson will be considered better by history.

[Kalen Braley]

And to boot.

Phil has got at least 10 more good years on tour.  I predict 3 more majors and 15 more wins...

[Garland Bayley]

Mark,

Let's compare meltdowns at the Masters. Oh, wait. That category belongs to Greg. Never mind.

Gayland

Lets not forget Mickelson's 5 US Open R/Ups as well incl. his Winged Foot meltdown 

Kayvan,

By Greg's definition of "meltdown", what Phil had was a hick up.
Are you denigrating Jack for his 13 runners up finishes?

[Scott Coan]

Pretty simple really.  Phil has WON twice as many majors as Greg; 4 to 2.

Not only that but Phil has elevated himself from the Vijay, Ernie, Paddy troika of guys with 3 majors in the Tiger era.  He can easily win a bunch more; time will tell.

 

[Kevin Pallier]

Garland (sorry)  

True for Norman re: 1996 and Faldo....

What say you of Mickelson's British Open record ?

Re: Jack's record....I think his 18 Major victories offsets that to a degree  

[Joel_Stewart]

Mickelson by a landslide.  Its not even close.  Mickelson has more game then Norman could ever think of.

A number of years ago I followed Norman at Cypress Point.  On #10, a par 5, he was just off the green to the left in 2.  I was standing directly behind him.  He had the easiest chip ever, a short bump and run.  Amazingly he opens up a sand wedge and tried to flop it.  It was then I relized the guy had no brain.

[Mark_F]

Where are all you Yanks getting four Majors for Phil from?

Mickelson has a solitary Major next to his name - the Masters is nothing more than a glorified exhibition, and cannot be classified as a Major.

Norman 2, Mickelson 1.

[Garland Bayley]

Garland (sorry)  

True for Norman re: 1996 and Faldo....

What say you of Mickelson's British Open record ?

Re: Jack's record....I think his 18 Major victories offsets that to a degree  

Lefty has one more runner up than win. Jack had one more runner up than win. So what is your point? 

[David_Elvins]

Breaking it up into home and away to allow for home country advantage.

Greg Norman: 31 wins at home, 57 overseas.

Mickelson: 38 wins at home, 8 overseas.

Looking at amount of time spent as dominant player in the world.  Weeks as world's number 1 ranked player:

Norman:  331  (6.5 years)
Mickelson: 0    

It's hard to find a way in which Phil out ranks Norman other than 'majors won' which when used without any further context is the unfortunate refuge of the simpleton.  

[Garland Bayley]

Where are all you Yanks getting four Majors for Phil from?

Mickelson has a solitary Major next to his name - the Masters is nothing more than a glorified exhibition, and cannot be classified as a Major.

Norman 2, Mickelson 1.

Oh, but how Greg loved to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory at that glorified exhibition.
Is there a fourth major we should be counting now that you have ruled that we can't count the glorified exhibition?

[Scott Coan]

Breaking it up into home and away to allow for home country advantage.

Greg Norman: 31 wins at home, 57 overseas.

Mickelson: 38 wins at home, 8 overseas.

Looking at amount of time spent as dominant player in the world.  Weeks as world's number 1 ranked player:

Norman:  331  (6.5 years)
Mickelson: 0    

It's hard to find a way in which Phil out ranks Norman other than 'majors won' which when used without any further context is the unfortunate refuge of the simpleton.  

So let's put a little more perspective into it for you.  Greg Norman was a member of the US PGA Tour for the vast majority of his career.  He moved from his home country to Florida in order to pursue that career.  He went on to win 20 PGA Tour events, a little more than HALF that of Phil's 38.  Is that enough perspective for you?

How many weeks at #1 would Norman have been if Tiger was born 15 years earlier?

[Mark_F]

It's hard to find a way in which Phil out ranks Norman other than 'majors won' which when used without any further context is the unfortunate refuge of the simpleton.  

Clearly all of the Phil has Four brigade also believe that Larry Nelson and Hale Irwin are better players than Greg Norman, and Scott Simpson, Andy North and Lee Janzen are as good.

[Scott Coan]

The only thing I'll grant you Mark is that Norman is twice as good as Micheal Campbell 

[Kevin_Reilly]

It was then I relized the guy had no brain.

Joel, how do you reconcile this with the fact that 1) Norman had one of the best short games on Tour, and 2) he's been a very successful businessman.

[Mark_F]

Oh, but how Greg loved to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory at that glorified exhibition.

Greg snatched defeat because he wasn't really interested in winning it.

When the heat was on in the true Masters - the Australian version - Greg stormed home with six big wins.

Is there a fourth major we should be counting now that you have ruled that we can't count the glorified exhibition?

The Australian Open has a better field, and is more difficult to win.

[Pat Burke]

I want to answer a question with a question
IMO Greg is to be respected for the hard work that enabled him to be a worldwide champion. 
Butch Harmon told me he had never seen anyone work as hard as him until he worked with Tiger.
So, my question.
WHich would Greg really rather have?  Phil's majors, or his?   I always thought Augusta was Greg's Moby Dick

All I know, is that both of them are damn good

[Jim Nugent]

Fascinating to watch the Aussies on board here (some of them) equate wins on the Aussie tour with wins on the U.S. tour...and explain why the Australian Masters counts as much as the one just finished. 

Joel, how do you reconcile this with the fact that 1) Norman had one of the best short games on Tour, and 2) he's been a very successful businessman.

Whatever happened at CPC, Norman's undoing overall IMO was the mental/emotional side of his game.  Time after time he self-destructed.  So while he had the physical ability to win maybe 10 majors, he came away with only two. 

Mickelson has won twice as many majors as Greg, and Phil is probably not done yet.  He also has won nearly twice as many PGA events as Greg.  And both played around the same number of events.  "Home country advantage" is a total red herring: the advantage Norman had at his home was the far inferior competition there. 

Norman did not have to face the all-time terminator of golf, Tiger Woods.  As Scott Coan pointed out, how many weeks does he spend as #1 if he does? 

David Elvins talking about the refuge of the simpleton is serious example of the pot calling the kettle black. 

[Steve Salmen]

Mark,

If I'm not mistaken, the tournament Greg Norman wanted to win more than any other in the world was the Masters.  It may not be a major to you but it certainly was to him.  He had several chances.  He never closed the deal on the big one and it was not for lack of talent.