[Terry Lavin]

Melvyn,

Can you justify this comment please?

"a man that would cheat for any advantage"

I consider that a ridiculous statement with no backing in reality whatsoever.

Furthermore, I find your comment about membership of the ring (anal) most disgusting and offensive. I would like to suggest that you go ahead and remove it. I also think it is utterly hypocritical and distasteful to mention that and The SS in a post during which you are attempting to moralise on what is allowed on the website and exported worldwide.

Tom:

Surely you jest!  You must have mis-read or misinterpreted his comments.  He couldn't say anything offensive, for he is defending the gentleman's game and all of his comments are pre-approved by the Ghost of Old Tom Morris (present past and future).  Old Tom would never approve that sort of ad hominem attack, such ethnic insensitivity or such baseless vulgarity. 

Surely Melvyn was referring to the anatomical anal ring, which does, in fact, exist in all of us.

Maybe he was talking about a Chevy SS, the fabled muscle car of days gone bye.

And don't forget, you or your loved one may one day be the unlucky soul who gets hit with the sole of Tiger's tossed club.

Preach on, St. Melvyn. 

[Michael Dugger]

Pathetic thread, Melvyn.

I love that you used the word "crime."

Talk about spin doctor...

[Craig Sweet]

Talk about your "Gentlemans Game"..

The Pope knew nothing of the child abuse that his fellow priest were inflicting all around him...

[George Pazin]

The line has been crossed, the marketing man is now in the public domain, he has done so to gain financial reward, so he can no longer shout I am a private man, he has sold his privacy for ‘loads of money’ , never forgetting that was his decision alone,  he sold himself to the public, he reaps the world wind of a of a fickle public.

I'd submit to you that this line you have created does not exist. I personally haven't purchased more than $100 worth of Nike products, and I'd be surprised if you have purchased anything that allows you to say that Tiger has sold you and everyone else something that allows you to stake a claim on his private life. If the line has been crossed anywhere, I believe it has been crossed by those who have no standing.

If you are not interested, can’t be bothered, or the current behaviour levels are acceptable to you, then you have no need to comment or voice an opinion. Your regards for the game is already clear and defined.

If you feel behaviour on course is important and currently what we see is rather poor then you should voice your opinion as it’s the only way to gauge the feeling of this site. After all we are meant to live in a democracy where we value the right to our freedom of speech.

Do you fit into any of the above modes or do you have another which you are willing to share.

Do you not see that contradictions between these statements?

His off course activities has also affected the game, they show our No1. rated Guy as a piece of S@*t, a man that would cheat for any advantage, on this occasion it would appear the payment may have been sex. He cared not for himself, his wife or family, it was not just the hurt but potential of passing on some infection to his wife. Did he stop, no he continued and built up a menagerie worldwide. To many, Tigers only guilty of being caught, to others who seem to do more than just play golf, who care for the game feel that he has brought the Game into disrepute, certainly for his language and club throwing alone.

These are pretty strong statements of condemnation for someone most of us only know through the public eye, and equally strong condemnations of others you likely haven't met at all, but only know through posts on this site. I'd submit you are inferring an awful lot- far more than I would - into others' behavior.

I understand your frustration with Tiger's persona, but I'd also say, I think you will find more peace if you can somehow figure out a way to let it go. Use it to teach your children if you wish, but yet another thread about how Tiger is destroying golf only feeds into the misperception that he is bigger than the game.

[Michael Dugger]

When is Melvyn going to start ripping on John Daly?  I mean sheez, he's on like wife #4 or something...

Guess Tiger is a victim of his own success, eh?  And I suppose it's his fault somehow.....

[Mac Plumart]

I heard an interesting take over the weekend about golf and Tiger from a broadcaster on ESPN.

A caller to his radio show said that he was a "true golfer" and he had been playing golf long before Tiger hit the scene and will play regardless of whether Tiger is in the field or not, so Tiger was irrelevant to him because the caller was a "true golfer".

The radio host proceeded to say that the media and the networks could care less about "true golfers" because no matter what happens this demographic will always be there for the networks.  Put on  a boring broadcast with no action or excitement, no big deal as the "true golfers" will watch anyway.  Now, add in a soap opera style sex scandal, throw in some f-bombs on the course, toss clubs around the course and the networks will not only get the "true golfers" but they will get the sometimes golfer and, the magic ingredient for ratings, the non-golfer will now watch and listen to these broadcasts.

So, why do I type this?  Melvyn's original question was...

"If you feel behaviour on course is important and currently what we see is rather poor then you should voice your opinion as it’s the only way to gauge the feeling of this site."

...and I feel that "true golfers" do not like Tiger's behavior at all regardless of whether it is his on course actions or off course actions.  But I think there is a conflict of interest and that conflict is related to the idealized view of golf as a Gentlemen's Game and the capitalisitic way of life and how it relates to making money.  So, to come to grips with whether you like Tiger's behavior I believe you first need to answer the question regarding which side of the fence are you on?  The true gentleman golfer's side or the capitalistic side?

Tough question for some.

I am sure that a lot of you guys would like to think of yourselves as true golfers, but based on the comments on this thread...you can hardly claim to be gentlemen.  So, I gather you like to soap opera Tiger rather than a gentlemen Tiger.  And that is fine...golf will generate more money that way, and we will see more of it on tv.  Which is fine by me.

As for me, I think I am fine with golf being a niche sport and if that is what it stays if golfer's behave well on the course and don't live the Soap Opera life...well, I am fine with that as well.

Anyway, that is my take on the question asked by Melvyn in the beginning.  Take it or leave it.  

[Pat Burke]

Joe

The main point of my post was in this paragraph

Whatever our positions are regards Tiger we still need a clean and exciting open game of golf to entertaining and attract new golfers and worldwide TV coverage, but for the right reasons ‘The Golf’. Thus allowing it to be watched by the family at large including grandchildren. If we want Golf to shine and be enjoyed to maximise its real potential, then we must stand up for our convictions. The game needs to send out a message that poor behaviour is not acceptable, not forgetting that we already have a code, its called ‘Course Etiquette’



Melvyn

Is the "game" so doomed by one man's behavior?  Let's go with the assumption that Tiger does not change his stripes .  Is the game of golf irreparably damaged because of one tour professional's antics?  I know you would love to have Tiger banned from the OPen for his on course behavior, but you have never said anything about banning every player who has demonstrated the same.  I was blessed to play St Andrews in '95, and I can guarantee you that the number of players in that field who have destroyed clubs, yelled at marshalls, and strung together impressively structured verbal tantrums was far more than you care to think about.
Your incessant hatred of Tiger and what he does grates on some because it is not about love of the game, it is about hate of the man.  If it was about love of the game, it would be about the behaviors of all of the offending culprits, not just the one in your narrow vision.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Mac,
Tiger Woods and his brethren are professionals playing for huge sums of money, from purses to endorsements to player consultant fees, etc.. They aren't necessarily out there to represent the 'values' which many people associate with the amateur game.

The really sad part of all this is that many, many players, from Bobby Jones to Tommy Bolt to Freddie Couples , have thrown clubs, dropped F-bombs, were adulterers, drank to excess, and were guilty of every transgression known to the human race.

Tiger seems to be in a category by himself. Sad.

All that needs to be done is to employ a 10 second tape delay that would give TV crews the chance to turn off the sound for the cussing or cut away from a club toss. We could all read about it later, and keep it away from those we wish wouldn't have to see it.

[Terry Lavin]

So, to come to grips with whether you like Tiger's behavior I believe you first need to answer the question regarding which side of the fence are you on?  The true gentleman golfer's side or the capitalistic side?

Tough question for some.

I am sure that a lot of you guys would like to think of yourselves as true golfers, but based on the comments on this thread...you can hardly claim to be gentlemen.  So, I gather you like to soap opera Tiger rather than a gentlemen Tiger.  And that is fine...golf will generate more money that way, and we will see more of it on tv.  Which is fine by me.

As for me, I think I am fine with golf being a niche sport and if that is what it stays if golfer's behave well on the course and don't live the Soap Opera life...well, I am fine with that as well.

You two make quite the pair, two peas in a very snotty pod.  "Based on the comments on this thread...you can hardly claim to be gentlemen."  We've really come full circle here, Mr. Plumart.  Shortly after you arrived on this site, we were regaled by your tales of taking up the game despite physical disability.  Then we were treated to tales of your being born again, complete with a biblical quote, from Romans, I believe.  Then a couple hundred posts of patting people on the back with encouraging words and praise for their ability to teach you so much about the subject that brings us together here on gca.  Then your spirited defense of the boorish, bombastic and decidedly single-subject Mr. Morrow.  

Now, we get the "which camp are you in" garbage.  I'll tell you which camp I'm in.  I'm in the camp that doesn't tell anybody how they have to play the game.  I'm in the camp that tolerates and even enjoys people who play in carts and who utilize yardage aids.  I'm in the camp that will listen to people prattle on about the joys of hickory golf even though I'm unlikely to ever use the tools of old.  I'm in the camp of people on this site who gladly play host to total strangers from around the globe that we meet in cyberspace without either one expecting anything out of the relationship.

I am not in the "my way or the highway" camp.  I'm not in the purist, prig and puritanical camp that attempts to become big by making somebody else feel small.  I'm not in the proselytizing camp, whether it be in matters of faith or minimalism in the architecture of golf courses.  I'm not in the "access whore" camp or the "desperate to be a Golfweek rater" camp.  And I'm not in the "you sir, are no gentleman" camp.  I'm not in any camp with anybody who invokes Nazis, anal rings and passive aggressive pathology to turn themselves into victims.  And I'm sure as hell not in any camp that would defend such a cipher.

[Tim Nugent]

Kelly, ya better be pulling REAL hard, his game islooking like mine, in the 9th off 1, chile-dipping in a bunker - all the good stuff.

[Mac Plumart]

Terry...

I just logged in to see if anyone was talking about the Masters when I saw your post.

You obviously don't like me and when I first noticed this a few months back, I reached out to you in private to see if you wanted to talk about the issues you had with me...as I've found open and honest communication generally can help people work through many of the differences they have.  But you didn't repond to my private message.  

The next communication you send my way is this public post.  I think many of the things you say are correct, I did take up golf because of health issues/disability, I am a Christian and becoming one changed my life, and I am VERY grateful to many on this site for many reasons.  But some of your post is off a little and/or played up in a seemingly mean-spirited way.  Why you choose to do that, I have no idea.  But it appears you take issue with me in many ways.  But you don't know me at all, so all I can do is try to communicate with you and see if we can seek to exist together in a better way.

In fact, we just might be more alike than you think...in fact we are in at least one camp together...per your words "I'm in the camp of people on this site who gladly play host to total strangers from around the globe that we meet in cyberspace without either one expecting anything out of the relationship."

However you choose to handle things going forward is fine with me.  If you want to be civil and cordial, I am all for that.  If you want to bad mouth me and say mean-spirited things, ok...I'll deal with it.

The idea of my prior post was to, hopefully, steer the thread back to Melvyn's original question and get people to stop throwing mud and to share an interesting media executives take on the Tiger ordeal.

[Mike Wagner]

Now I hope Tiger wins the British by 20......  

[PCCraig]

Melvyn-

With all your recent talk of anal rings your hamsters (Old Tom and Young Tom) must be getting really nervous.  

Starting a thread like you did really serves no purpose other than to call more attention to yourself. I held out hope that after you "quit" this site two weeks ago in a disagreement with Tom Paul that you wouldn't actually return, but look who's back after a few weeks...  

This site is better without you and your hateful soapbox antics. One day someone is going to kick that soapbox out from underneath you.

You can call me an anal ring all day long, but your comparison between myself and other members that don't agree with you or your method on this site to SS officers is pathetic, narrow minded, and sad.

[Terry Lavin]

Terry...

I just logged in to see if anyone was talking about the Masters when I saw your post.

You obviously don't like me and when I first noticed this a few months back, I reached out to you in private to see if you wanted to talk about the issues you had with me...as I've found open and honest communication generally can help people work through many of the differences they have.  But you didn't repond to my private message.  

The next communication you send my way is this public post.  I think many of the things you say are correct, I did take up golf because of health issues/disability, I am a Christian and becoming one changed my life, and I am VERY grateful to many on this site for many reasons.  But some of your post is off a little and/or played up in a seemingly mean-spirited way.  Why you choose to do that, I have no idea.  But it appears you take issue with me in many ways.  But you don't know me at all, so all I can do is try to communicate with you and see if we can seek to exist together in a better way.

In fact, we just might be more alike than you think...in fact we are in at least one camp together...per your words "I'm in the camp of people on this site who gladly play host to total strangers from around the globe that we meet in cyberspace without either one expecting anything out of the relationship."

However you choose to handle things going forward is fine with me.  If you want to be civil and cordial, I am all for that.  If you want to bad mouth me and say mean-spirited things, ok...I'll deal with it.

The idea of my prior post was to, hopefully, steer the thread back to Melvyn's original question and get people to stop throwing mud and to share an interesting media executives take on the Tiger ordeal.

Mac,

"You obviously don't like me."  I'm sorry that I can't feed your need for affection hereabouts.  "The next communication you send my way is this public post."  Who was it who wrote a lengthy post implying that those who disagree with Melvyn aren't gentlemen?  As the saying goes, if you lie down with dogs, you'll get fleas.  I can't tolerate judgmental, hypocritical and monomaniacal types and you and Melvyn are truly kindred spirits in that regard, or at least your posts would confirm the validity of such a view.

[Mac Plumart]

Terry...

Ok, I'll just assume we don't see eye to eye and never will.  No worries.

I certainly didn't imply that those who didn't agree with Melvyn weren't gentlemen, I thought it was clear that the way the disagreement was expressed was the non-gentlemenly aspect.  But I evidently it wasn't clear. 

Your suggesting that I am "judgmental, hypocritical and monomaniacal" based on my last post surprises me.  I'll re-read it and try not to come off that way again.

 

[Terry Lavin]

Terry...

Ok, I'll just assume we don't see eye to eye and never will.  No worries.

I certainly didn't imply that those who didn't agree with Melvyn weren't gentlemen, I thought it was clear that the way the disagreement was expressed was the non-gentlemenly aspect.  But I evidently it wasn't clear. 

Your suggesting that I am "judgmental, hypocritical and monomaniacal" based on my last post surprises me.  I'll re-read it and try not to come off that way again.

 

No worries is a good way to put it.  We're talking about golf here.  When people start throwing around epithets, anal rings, Nazi references and the rest, we've strayed pretty far OT.  People like that don't need defenders.

[PCCraig]

MELVYN-

TIGER JUST THREW A CLUB IN THE AIR!

But it was with a smile on his face after knocking in a shot from the fairway for am eagle! 

[Scott Warren]

Pat,

I'd love to know what he said to Stevie after covering his mouth with his hand so the camera couldn't read his lips!!

Something about things going into holes, no doubt!

[Michael Dugger]

Jim Carrey apparently likes Tiger!

[Terry Lavin]

Pat,

I'd love to know what he said to Stevie after covering his mouth with his hand so the camera couldn't read his lips!!

Something about things going into holes, no doubt!

Gary McCord is probably at Whisper Rock talking about bikini waxes

[Melvyn Morrow]

Pat Burke

I am sorry but you are wrong. I do not hate Tiger, I never have. Had you bothered to read my past posts/threads then you will have noticed that I talked about poor course behaviour, using Tiger as one of the worst current offender. Also because he is well covered by TV so his actions are there to watch.

Poor behaviour is my campaign not Tiger, you or anyone else. I want the courses safe and golfers adhering to the code. If that is out of order or wrong then I will just have to live with it. I would like a safe, friendly environment where golfers can show consideration and courtesy to each other. But yes I lead with Tiger due to the coverage and his poor recorded on TV yet my comments apply to all who behave poorly on a golf course.

If you had bothered you would have noted that this has been my position from the start and has been confirmed time and again.

I hate no one, not even those who attack me on this site, not even Terry or Pat. I do not hate carts, but I dislike cart tracks, not keen or more is the point I do not see the need for distance aids. If I could I would welcome them being removed from our golf courses, but that is not going to happen, so I am expressing my opinion or is that no longer acceptable on this site?

Terry

Why am I not surprised to see you having a go at Mac. Is it because he is a decent individual, has his own mind and is a clear thinker. Are you attack him because you feel he is fair minded or because you feel he is supporting me.

Mac has been and is good for this site, he is calm, he sees good rather than bad in each of us and he is not scared or willing to make his comments. He is his own man and has the courage to freely voice his opinion.

Mac has all the qualities that you seem to lack, so I can understand your frustration and why you let it surface, but why not address all your dislikes to me, get it off you chest, or do you think that Mac is just another easy target?

Melvyn 

[Terry Lavin]

MHM:

He's defending the indefensible, so he deserved the tweaking.  You're another story.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Terry

With a little bit of luck we could have “The Never Ending Story”

Melvyn

[Terry Lavin]

Wouldn't that be special!

[noonan]

I think it is time to ban Melvin - he adds very little to this site but Tiger bashing

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