David Fay on Old Mac and Bandon Dunes Resort

[Jud_T]

from the latest Golf Digest:

"If someone gave me tee times at Pebble Beach, Cypress, Spyglass and one of the two courses at Monterey Peninsula Country Club versus the same deal at Bandon-four courses in two days-it's no contest:  I'd take Bandon hands down, and I think I've seen just about everything there is to compare it to."

Agree or Disagree?

[Guy Nicholson]

I think the access issue would sway a lot of people toward Cypress, even if was one round there vs. four at Bandon.

[Tom_Doak]

I think the access issue would sway a lot of people toward Cypress, even if was one round there vs. four at Bandon.

I'm sure that is true. 

But Mr. Fay was only comparing them as golf courses, since access is not much of an issue for him.  And it's a pretty strong statement, just on those terms.

[Ben Sims]

Jud,

This is one of, if not THE toughest question I've ever seen posted.  Usually I see these type threads, my gut immediately reacts one way or another.  Instinctually, I have no preference.  This question--I think--touches on the heart of who I am as a golfer.  

The Emperor tell me that I don't know it yet, but my personality is such that St. Andrews will be the one forsaking all others once I meet her.  That means deep down, Bandon might win the day.

Looking at Spyglass and Dunes or Shores vs. B Trails and B Dunes, I think it could be a tossup depending on the day.  Then remaining you have Cypress and Pebble vs. Pac and Mac?  My lord what a question.  

I'm going to need a day or so to recover from that notion.  

[John Moore II]

Yeah, this is an odd question/idea. Comparing two things of such high quality is just silly. How about we say a big thank you that we have such a great selection of courses to choose from.

Ben-Kind of like asking you if its more fun to fly an F-22 or an F-15 (hope you're a fighter pilot  )

[Ben Sims]

Yeah, this is an odd question/idea. Comparing two things of such high quality is just silly. How about we say a big thank you that we have such a great selection of courses to choose from.

Ben-Kind of like asking you if its more fun to fly an F-22 or an F-15 (hope you're a fighter pilot  )

John,

No.  I actually wanted to fly in combat.  So I flew a tactical airlifter and flew over 400 hrs in southwest Asia.   

But my fighter bros all tell me to pull my cranium out of my ass and spend six to nine minutes in the container and I'll want to drop b-words on bad guys, point with my elbows, play Crud, and grow mustaches for no reason other than it's March. 

Alas, my sticks don't fit in the raptor. 

--Corky

[John Moore II]

Yeah Ben, I don't understand most of what you said your fighter boys say to you; I guess because I'm not a pilot. I really don't get pointing with elbows. OK, so you're a heavy lift pilot. How about comparing Monterey to Bandon is like comparing the C-5 to the C-17. If you really love golf or really love flying either option is pretty dang outstanding.

[Ben Sims]

Yeah Ben, I don't understand most of what you said your fighter boys say to you; I guess because I'm not a pilot. I really don't get pointing with elbows. OK, so you're a heavy lift pilot. How about comparing Monterey to Bandon is like comparing the C-5 to the C-17. If you really love golf or really love flying either option is pretty dang outstanding.

That was the point. I have no idea what they're saying 69% of the time either. 

But going back to the thread.  No, it shouldn't matter.  But even that these two courses at their young age are being mentioned as competitors to a Cypress/Pebble combo is beyond incredible. 

I'm leaning towards Cypress/Pebble, just because I haven't played there.  But throw in an afternoon at Sheep Ranch.... 

[John Foley]

I'd be very suprised if Mr. Fay's answer would be the same if he had never played Cypress Point.

[Guy Nicholson]

I think the access issue would sway a lot of people toward Cypress, even if was one round there vs. four at Bandon.

I'm sure that is true. 

But Mr. Fay was only comparing them as golf courses, since access is not much of an issue for him.  And it's a pretty strong statement, just on those terms.

The OP can clarify, but I think the question as posed could feasibly mean a number of things, including:

A) Would you make that choice if you had no access issues and had played (or acquired adequate familiarity with) all the courses?
B) Would you make that choice in your own situation, if A) doesn't apply to you?
C) Do you agree that the four Bandon courses are so superior as a group as to state that there is no contest?

[Mike Wagner]

First of all, it's Bandon for me.  The reality (again, for me) is not disssecting which ones are better......they're all 10's in my book.  It comes down to how much you LOVE firm/fast and the ground game.  Monterrey does not offer that.

[Jud_T]

I should have phrased it in terms of forgetting access or costs, just looking at what's on the ground.  I haven't played 'em all yet, but based on my sample and my personal preferences, I'd have to say I'm inclined to agree with him.

[Brent Hutto]

First of all, it's Bandon for me.  The reality (again, for me) is not disssecting which ones are better......they're all 10's in my book.  It comes down to how much you LOVE firm/fast and the ground game.  Monterrey does not offer that.

Although MPCC Shore plays pretty darned firm.

[Tim Nugent]

The interesting statement for me was "one of the two MPCC courses".  Does he mean either one or one of the two "but I can't say which lest I piss of the members for indirectly disrespecting the other one"?

I think alot of this A vs B stuff comes down to personal perference.  Perhaps all Fey is saying is he perfers the style of golf at Bandon over that of MP rather than opining as to the quality of one over the other.  Or maybe he's so intimate with MP after all these years that he finds Bandon refreshingly new and unexplored.

[Terry Lavin]

from the latest Golf Digest:

"If someone gave me tee times at Pebble Beach, Cypress, Spyglass and one of the two courses at Monterey Peninsula Country Club versus the same deal at Bandon-four courses in two days-it's no contest:  I'd take Bandon hands down, and I think I've seen just about everything there is to compare it to."

Agree or Disagree?

I haven't played MPCC, but with that proviso, I absolutely agree with Fay.  Pebble is really great.  Cypress is magical.  Spyglass is real good.  But Bandon's courses, 1-4 have a an aura of instant classics and a consistency and a great vibe.  The fact that there are no carts does a lot to add to the majesty of the place.  There are precious few slappers, chili-dippers and outright hackers playing at Bandon.  It's just too arduous of an experience for the casual golfer.  There are aspects of the Pebble resort that are superior to Bandon, but they are chiefly social in nature.  There's no Carmel near the Bandon resort.  You play there and stay there.  But as for the golf, Bandon is clearly superior.  The Pebble courses, on the other hand, lend themselves to the casual golfer who has no business on a Top Ten golf course.  If you eliminated carts on the Monterey Peninsula, the courses would go out of business.

[Tom Huckaby]

Terry:

Interesting, I concur with much of what you say, but for me, that's what turns the scale SOUTH; that is, that is why I'd prefer the Carmel courses.  More hacks at Pebble sure, but way less crowded (at MPCC and Cypress) and way less obnxious belt-notchers at the private clubs also.  I also don't mind hacks much.

But heck, the question was 4 rounds over two days.  That's not enough time for outside influences to matter a whole hell of a lot.

Make it just about the golf courses... and it's gonna turn on just how great Old MacDonald is... because it's gonna have to be up there with Cypress and Pebble (as Pacific Dunes arguably already is).  Maybe it will be... but obviously that's a very tall statement.  I don't know, haven't been there, may never get back up there.

And I think this is likely Fay's main point.  OM is indeed that good.

TH

[Terry Lavin]

Huck:

You're right about the Old MacDonald part of this opinion calculus.  I'm playing there with Keiser himself in May, so I'm going to get a complete immersion experience and I'll faithfully report the event.

Also, I guess I inferred that I don't like hackers.  The opposite is true, but in evaluating resorts of this quality, it's significant to me that there aren't an abundance of chops at Bandon.  The Pebble experience is quite the opposite.  A quick story.  I hooked up as a single one day (hundo to the starter) and was paired with two Japanese gentlemen who spoke no english that were walking and a guy around my age who was in a cart.  I was going to walk, but I figured it might be more companionable to ride with the American.  "I'll ride with you," I said.  He quickly demurred, saying, "My wife is going to ride with me."  I was more confused than aghast, because I thought that would make a fivesome.  He told me she wasn't going to play, just ride along.  She spent the entire round (five plus) hectoring him from the cart: "Keep your head down, RJ."  "Slow it down, RJ."  "Just pick it up, RJ."  He probably shot 150.  By the fifth hole, I was wishing I spoke Japanese.

[Tom Huckaby]

Terry:

Understood (and love the story).  I just don't think any of this can turn on who one sees at either place; and if it does, well... Bandon is not immune from let's just say negative influences.  It's sure as hell not all sweet-swinging golf nuts up there; it can't be - too expensive.

Looking forward to your OM reports.

[Brent Hutto]

Tom,

Good job not mentioned "cigars" at any point in your defense of South.

[Tom Huckaby]

Tom,

Good job not mentioned "cigars" at any point in your defense of South.

The hope is one does live and learn.
 

[Sean_A]

I gotta say, despite the drawback of the public side of things up at Bandon, that seaside turf would go an awfully long way toward making me prefer those courses over one heck of a lot of great private designs.  Once you get used to links turf, everything else is second best - at best.

Ciao

[Richard Choi]

Sounds like a hole-by-hole dueling thread for Monterrey courses VS Bandon Dunes courses is in order!

[Anthony Gray]

  Bandon is better. The isolation and lodging put it over the top with golf being equal.

  Anthony

[Tim Nugent]

Maybe Mr. Fay is setting the groundwork for some USGA (dare I say OPEN) love for Bandon?  Although I think it would be difficult from an infrastructure standpoint (Travel, lodging, etc.) could Old Mac be Doak's 1st Open course?  Seems like it has the length.  It would go with the trend in trying to get some new blood into the Open Venues.  For thiose who have been out to see it, your thoughts? Could Old Mac handle the Open?

OR maybe a 4 course rotatinal tourney like the AT&T?  They have the beach for the clambake.

[Jud_T]

OR maybe a 4 course rotatinal tourney like the AT&T?  They have the beach for the clambake.

That would be awesome....not sure where all the fans would come from though.....