Golf and Baseball

[Dan Joseph]

I know this is not an architecture question but I did not know where else to go to for advice. 
My son is a HS freshman and has been playing competitive golf and baseball since he was 8.  He has a nice golf swing and hits the ball a ton, his BB swing has always been a little shaky because of his golf influence in his swing. 

This year is his first year playing HS BB; his BB coach realized he was golfer during their first batting practice and has been working hard to improve his batting swing.  Just yesterday my son and I played 9 holes for the first time since last November (hard winter here).  My son whiffed 7 times on the first tee and could not hit the golf ball; he managed to pull it together near the end of the round and pared the last 3 holes thanks to his short game.

My question is – should he keep working hard to try and master both swings or should he consider giving up one of the sports.  Is there anyone that has been able to play golf and baseball successfully at the same time?  Any advice would be appreciated.

[K. Krahenbuhl]

I know this is not an architecture question but I did not know where else to go to for advice. 
My son is a HS freshman and has been playing competitive golf and baseball since he was 8.  He has a nice golf swing and hits the ball a ton, his BB swing has always been a little shaky because of his golf influence in his swing. 

This year is his first year playing HS BB; his BB coach realized he was golfer during their first batting practice and has been working hard to improve his batting swing.  Just yesterday my son and I played 9 holes for the first time since last November (hard winter here).  My son whiffed 7 times on the first tee and could not hit the golf ball; he managed to pull it together near the end of the round and pared the last 3 holes thanks to his short game.

My question is – should he keep working hard to try and master both swings or should he consider giving up one of the sports.  Is there anyone that has been able to play golf and baseball successfully at the same time?  Any advice would be appreciated.

I gave up baseball in high school because of this.  I know there are people who have done both and a couple of my golfing friends were very accomplished baseball players.  It just wasn't for me.

[Tim Leahy]

It is difficult to play both because the baseball swing needs a super strong right hand and the golf swing needs a strong left hand. I used to play a lot of softball along with golf and I would exercise my left hand with a stress ball the night before I played golf to make up for the strong right hand in softball. I also would remind myself to lighten up on the right hand on the golf swing. Also to get away from stepping into the ball like you do in baseball, I would hit balls with my feet together to get the balance issue straightened out.

[Tom_Doak]

Dan:

I had the same problem when I was 11 or 12 and started playing golf ... it screwed up my baseball swing, because in one sport you step into the pitch, and in the other you can't make such an obvious weight transfer.

There are any number of major leaguers who play golf on their days off, though many of the best of them are pitchers.  So it's not like it can't be overcome, but it isn't easy.

[Jim Colton]

It seems like a natural progression to go from baseball to golf.  We all had baseball swings starting out that slowly started morphed into something resembling a golf swing.  I'm sure the basic hand-eye coordination and weight transfer is a good stepping stone.

I also gave up my baseball life when I started become more serious about golf.  Didn't play baseball again until my senior year in high school, after my golf 'career' was effectively over.  The only home run I ever hit was on a golf swing low and inside.  Go figure.

[Phil Benedict]

I have always considered the swing mechanics between golf and baseball to be quite similar, but with different planes.  In both swings power is created by leading the forward swing with the legs.  The impact positions are similar.  Batter are always talking about keeping the lead shoulder closed as long as possible, which is also a golf swing principle.

I played both sports from an early age and never had a problem.  As a batter I liked the ball down in the zone which may have been influenced by golf.

[Bob_Huntley]

Dan,

You wrote:

"My question is – should he keep working hard to try and master both swings or should he consider giving up one of the sports.  Is there anyone that has been able to play golf and baseball successfully at the same time?  Any advice would be appreciated."

Sam Byrd did.

Bob


 
 
 

[Sean Leary]

Dan,

You wrote:

"My question is – should he keep working hard to try and master both swings or should he consider giving up one of the sports.  Is there anyone that has been able to play golf and baseball successfully at the same time?  Any advice would be appreciated."

Sam Byrd did.

Bob


 
 
 

Mike Schmidt and Johnny Bench come to mind as well

[Jud_T]

I'd consider not golfing during baseball season.  Or bite the bullet and drop one.

[Dan Joseph]

Thanks to those that replied.  After looking a little deeper here is what I found.  I think there is still hope for my boy to be successful at both.

http://www.golf.com/golf/special_feature/0,31941,1964664,00.html

http://www.golf.com/golf/gallery/article/0,28242,1966948-1,00.html

[Steve Lang]

  from personal experience.. have him be a catcher.. you never get batting practice.. 

[Ben Sims]

Dan,

I hate to be cynical, but getting advice from Golf Magazine on this issue could be a bit jaded.

I played baseball from age 5 to 20, at every level other than pro.  I picked up golf the week after I left my college team in the spring of 2001.  I STILL fight my baseball swing.  Why? I still throw my hands to the ball when I'm trying to be athletic and I "forget" myself.  What does that cause?  Casting the club, hard.

Even when my timing is spot on and I lead with my shoulder turn but I leave a little of my weight on my back foot--a la the baseball swing--the shot moves left to right.  

I also fundamentally disagree with Tom that in golf, your weight transfer isn't as marked.  In golf--he's right--we don't step into the swing.  But in baseball, 70% of my weight stayed on my back foot through the entre swing.  It's just a agressive hip turn. My coach always called it "squashing the bug" with my back hip, leg and foot."  

In the golf swing, weight starts relatively 50/50, then goes to the back foot--partially--in the backswing.  Then, through aggressive shoulder turn--not hips--the weight moves laterally to the target and ends up almost entirely on the front foot.  In my opinion, the swings could not be more divergent or counterintuitive when done side by side .

Hopefully your son is a better athlete than I was.

[Andy Hodson]

Dan,

As a long time golf instructor, I came to be able to spot a baseball player among my junior golfers in one swing...its as Ben said...its ''squashing the bug''. The weight stays back on the back foot and the rotation of the hips and shoulders happens around the back axis. In the golf swing the forward swing should occur around the front leg axis. This is the whole notion behind stack and tilt....keep the weight forward throughout the swing to insure the rotation occurs around the front axis. The reason for this in the golf swing is that a properly struck golf ball is struck with a downward blow...in geometrical terms, the bottom of the golf swing occurs on the target side of the ball [it is my theory that the difference between good and bad players is simply where the bottom of their golf swings occur].

In baseball, in general, the hitter wants the ''bottom'' of his swing to occur before the ball, thus providing lift. I think this is why hitting instructors emphasize the ''squash the bug'' thing. Personally, I think they are mistaken in this teaching. There have been plenty of great hitters in baseball who hit off their front axis,  Clemente and Aaron being two.

And, unfortunately, from my experience these two theories of hitting a ball are very hard to meld in one's mind. It seems to be one way or the other.

[jeffwarne]

I know this is not an architecture question but I did not know where else to go to for advice. 
My son is a HS freshman and has been playing competitive golf and baseball since he was 8.  He has a nice golf swing and hits the ball a ton, his BB swing has always been a little shaky because of his golf influence in his swing. 

This year is his first year playing HS BB; his BB coach realized he was golfer during their first batting practice and has been working hard to improve his batting swing.  Just yesterday my son and I played 9 holes for the first time since last November (hard winter here).  My son whiffed 7 times on the first tee and could not hit the golf ball; he managed to pull it together near the end of the round and pared the last 3 holes thanks to his short game.

My question is – should he keep working hard to try and master both swings or should he consider giving up one of the sports.  Is there anyone that has been able to play golf and baseball successfully at the same time?  Any advice would be appreciated.

If he can hit the golf ball "a ton", I'd suggest that whatever he's doing in golf is fundamentally correct and athletic.
I'd say his baseball coach needs to get him to swing a bat more like a golf club.
As a 13 year Little League coach and 25 year golf pro, I'm always amazed at the nonsense coming out of parents and coaches mouths about the  golf "swing" and baseball "swing".
If you teach simple athletic motion, and allow for an individual's idiosyncrasies, players will be successful.
When someone crams their method or technique down an individual's throat, it's usually a recipe for failure.

I thank my Pony League coach every day for forcing me to "choose" when I was 14. (never did get my glove back from the kid I gave it to that day-much to the surprise of my coach)

[Bob_Huntley]

Sean,

Schmidt and Bench were never in the same league as Sam Byrd, the guy won 6 PGA tournaments and was a noted teacher of the game.

Bob

[Mike Benham]

In baseball, in general, the hitter wants the ''bottom'' of his swing to occur before the ball, thus providing lift. I think this is why hitting instructors emphasize the ''squash the bug'' thing. Personally, I think they are mistaken in this teaching. There have been plenty of great hitters in baseball who hit off their front axis,  Clemente and Aaron being two.

We could discuss this for hours but Andy makes some very good points about the weight transfer but I will remind everyone that the evolution of the golf swing from the "reverse C" to the modern swing has also happened in baseball.  Watch the old swings of DiMaggio, Ruth, Gehrig, and you see swing with long front strides, weight moving forward as the swing starts, the modern baseball swing has many batters taking very little forward stride.

In both cases, the modern versions of the swings take into account the leverage of the hips, torso and arm extension through the swing much differently then the "olden days".

I will answer the original question this way, your son should not drop either sport, he should be encouraged to play as many different sports and activities as possible.  As for the impact that one swing has on the other sport, if he can learn the technical reasons why each swing performs the way it does, then he will be able to apply teaching to improve each swing ... knowledge is very dangerous and beneficial.

[A.G._Crockett]

Dan,

I hate to be cynical, but getting advice from Golf Magazine on this issue could be a bit jaded.

I played baseball from age 5 to 20, at every level other than pro.  I picked up golf the week after I left my college team in the spring of 2001.  I STILL fight my baseball swing.  Why? I still throw my hands to the ball when I'm trying to be athletic and I "forget" myself.  What does that cause?  Casting the club, hard.

Even when my timing is spot on and I lead with my shoulder turn but I leave a little of my weight on my back foot--a la the baseball swing--the shot moves left to right.  

I also fundamentally disagree with Tom that in golf, your weight transfer isn't as marked.  In golf--he's right--we don't step into the swing.  But in baseball, 70% of my weight stayed on my back foot through the entre swing.  It's just a agressive hip turn. My coach always called it "squashing the bug" with my back hip, leg and foot."  

In the golf swing, weight starts relatively 50/50, then goes to the back foot--partially--in the backswing.  Then, through aggressive shoulder turn--not hips--the weight moves laterally to the target and ends up almost entirely on the front foot.  In my opinion, the swings could not be more divergent or counterintuitive when done side by side .

Hopefully your son is a better athlete than I was.

This is basically the deal.  My son (now 19) just finished a pretty good baseball career, and I sat in on almost every hitting lesson he ever took.

He played golf with me from the time he was five, but while he was playing HS baseball, he would NOT play golf.  While there are great similarities between the two swings, what you are doing with your hands and weight are very, very different, IMO. 

Like Ben, my son still fights his baseball swing when he plays golf.  He can just kill a golf ball, but unless he is very, very careful, he has serious power right center field.  Great in baseball, not so much in golf, and he finds that to be very frustrating at times.  But he does dig the long ball...

That said, I don't think there is any reason to "give up" a sport.  Just don't expect to play both particularly well at the same time.

[Rick Sides]

Dan,
Good question to ask.  I coach junior high school baseball and of course play a lot of golf myself.  I can tell you the two swings are very different.  If I can give you some advice, I would suggest seeing which sport your son likes most and working with that sport.  It is very important that young kids get to have a part in selecting which sport they really like to play.

[Jon Spaulding]

In baseball, in general, the hitter wants the ''bottom'' of his swing to occur before the ball, thus providing lift. I think this is why hitting instructors emphasize the ''squash the bug'' thing. Personally, I think they are mistaken in this teaching. There have been plenty of great hitters in baseball who hit off their front axis,  Clemente and Aaron being two.

We could discuss this for hours but Andy makes some very good points about the weight transfer but I will remind everyone that the evolution of the golf swing from the "reverse C" to the modern swing has also happened in baseball.  Watch the old swings of DiMaggio, Ruth, Gehrig, and you see swing with long front strides, weight moving forward as the swing starts, the modern baseball swing has many batters taking very little forward stride.

In both cases, the modern versions of the swings take into account the leverage of the hips, torso and arm extension through the swing much differently then the "olden days".

I will answer the original question this way, your son should not drop either sport, he should be encouraged to play as many different sports and activities as possible.  As for the impact that one swing has on the other sport, if he can learn the technical reasons why each swing performs the way it does, then he will be able to apply teaching to improve each swing ... knowledge is very dangerous and beneficial.

I presume from these photos that you are advocating the use of torque, and steroids.

[Jon Spaulding]

My question is – should he keep working hard to try and master both swings or should he consider giving up one of the sports.  Is there anyone that has been able to play golf and baseball successfully at the same time?  Any advice would be appreciated.

There are plenty of people that have done both well, I have seen it firsthand

If forced to choose, stick with baseball as the primary, golf as the secondary...unless there is some compelling factor to reverse course.

The value of playing a team sport (baseball) at the high school level is huge from a personal development standpoint. Also, the cool factor of baseball over golf should not be ignored. It's the classic Benham versus Huckaby argument......

[Andy Hodson]

After looking at the pictures of Bonds and Tiger, and how much more ''open'' Bonds is at impact, I surmise that is because of the fact he does not have to hit every ball to center field. In fact, more good things happen when he hits it to, and over,  right field. Tiger, like all good golfers, must hit it to ''center fiield'' to succeed, and thus is more closed at impact with his hips and shoulders. [Side question...how far could Tiger hit it if left field was in play].

And, steroids aside, Bonds' swing was perfect.

[Shane Wright]

Dan -

I have not had time to read all the responses here so I apologize if I am repeating anything, but this is a topic that hits home with me.

RESPECTFULLY, DO NOT MAKE YOUR KID QUIT EITHER ONE!

I'm happy to discuss privately or here or both, but I played both in high school, played D 1 and professionally in baseball, and continued to play golf semi competively. I know dozens of others who did the same after high school. 

For those who have chosen one over the other, I totally understand, it is natural and gives you the time to dedicate to one.  But if your son is having fun with both, he may have to work a little extra harder to be good at both, but it can be done and would be a shame to give up something he loves.

The friendships he will make thru both, the discipline he will learn, and the hard work that it takes will help him the rest of his life.

The swings are only slightly different but you are still hitting from the inside regardless of whether it is baseball or golf.  Like it said, it just takes a little more work to be able to switch back and forth and do it well. 

Let me know if you need anything else.

Shane 

[M. Shea Sweeney]

Dan-

I played a high level of baseball and golf at the same exact time. I would have golf tournaments during the day, and a baseball game at night. I had to decide which to persue in College. I chose golf.

In the baseball swing you load your weight onto your right side, then shift back to your left side, rotate your body and extended your arms.

Same as golf.

He'll figure it out.

[Thomas McQuillan]

If I remember correctly, I read somewhere that Walter Hagens golf swing was strongly influenced by his first love, baseball. 11 majors shows it can be done.

[Mike Wagner]

Dan,

This could go a lot of directions, but his passion will drive him.  I managed to play both during those years, and had a great experience.  One was completely on my own (yeah it was a golf "team," but...), and baseball allowed me to experience a true team.

I wouldn't have been able to give one up during those years - too many great experiences with both.