Philly's Public "Dream 18"

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Matt,

Here is a pic of 15@Jeffersonville from Joe Bausch's collection:



The green slopes severely from back to front. The tee shot is all carry.

[Matt_Ward]

Steve:

Tell you what I'll switch the par-3 designation and leave SR for another choice -- but it won't be the 16th -- the 16th at ACCC is good bit beyond that hole.

Thanks for sharing ...

p.s. what is your listing of an all-18 as a par-72 course with no more than one hole per course.

[Matt_Ward]

I've left three openings to be completed. I have a few worthy holes for insertion -- curious to see how others would have me complete the listing. Please note -- the final three must be split between a par-5, par-4 and par-3 holes.

1st hole --
2nd hole -- Scotland Run (NJ) / 452 or 414 yards (4)
3rd hole -- Inniscrone (PA) / 317 yards (4)
4th hole -- Sand Barrens (south) (NJ) / 439 yards (4)
5th hole -- Morgan Hill (PA) / 546 yards (5)
6th hole -- Ocean County at Atlantis (NJ) / 200 yards (3)
7th hole --
8th hole --
9th hole -- The Architect's (NJ) / 450 yards (4)

10th hole -- Buena Vista (NJ) / 505 yards (5)
11th hole -- Wyncote (PA) / 461 yards (4)
12th hole -- Lederach (PA) / 654 yards (5)
13th hole -- Bulle Rock (MD) / 476 yards (4)
14th hole -- Twisted Dune (NJ) / 414 yards (4)
15th hole -- Jeffersonville (PA) / 215 yards (3)
16th hole -- ACCC (NJ) / 400 yards (4)
17th hole -- Cobbs Creek (PA) / 195 yards (3)
18th hole -- Cape May National (NJ) / 446 yards (4) 

[mike_malone]

 The par 3 #8 at Deerfield is one possibility, 200 yards uphill to modestly sloped green. I assume you want courses not already used and the hole is the # at the course. #8 at Paxon Hollow is also a strong par 3. #1 at Springfield (current routing) is a very strong opening par 4 of over 400 yards that leaves a downhill lie to an uphill green with quite a bit of slope to it. And a par 5---#7 at the originally and now again Pike Creek Golf Club. It is 500 yards with a demanding tee shot, a tricky layup or a challenging go for it in two to a demanding green.

 Matt ,

    If you aren't familiar with these courses then I wonder about your statements of the quality of piblic golf in the Philly area. Personally, I think Paxon, Springfield, Centerton, Pike Creek, Porky Oliver, Deerfield and Back Creek each have several star holes that could make any list.

[Matt_Ward]

Hey Mike:

I've played all but 2-3 courses you mentioned -- instead of telling me deficient my listing is -- why not post yours.

If you think the Pennsy side is equivalent or better than the South Jersey public side please feel free to explain in GREAT DETAIL how that might be. Think of it this way -- fortunately Lederach and Morgan Hill have opened in recent years to provide a valuable contribution.

[mike_malone]

 I don't recall calling your list deficient, just kidded that your first nine had 6 Jersey. I'm not good with remembering every hole  on courses. I don't even try. But, when you narrowed it down and asked for a few specific ones I could think of courses not listed and holes not used.

[Matt_Ward]

Mike:

That's my point -- post your listing and let's see what you mention. To speak about mine or other holes in the "abstract" dioesn't add much to the discussion. I'd just like to see what courses / holes you emphasize.

thanks ...

[Matt_Ward]

It's amazing for all the people who bark about my listing thus far -- I have not see others venture forward with ANY selections !

What gives ?

[mike_malone]

 Matt,

     You asked for ideas; I gave you ideas. Which hole that you chose that I "barked" about?

[Matt_Ward]

Mike:

Post a Phila top 18 listing from the ones you have played.

It's real simple.

I've got just three holes to fill out my dance card.

What's with the tap dance avoidance angle ?

[Dan Herrmann]

8th hole - Honeybrook's 8th?

[Matt_Ward]

Guys:

Before people starting lobbing forward just a hole or two -- can people provide an entire 18-hole layout ? Preferably one that is a par-72 and features holes in the same location as they would be found when playing.

[mike_malone]

 Matt,

    I have no interest in creating such a ranking. It is the farthest thing from my mind. It's nothing personal; I just don't think that way.

[Matt_Ward]

Mike:

The purpose of the thread is to do exactly that.

Coming out and opining on what I have posted -- the states themselves -- and then not doing so wastes everyone's time and just undermines your own crediibility.

Mike -- you can certainly expand your "think"ing to do just that. It's not that hard.

[Dan Herrmann]

Matt - it's too much work

[Matt_Ward]

Dan:

I respect your opinion but you can't really comment on the top public courses in Phila and their respective holes ?

Hard for me to believe that given your knowledge.

[Dan Herrmann]

Matt,
What I can do this morning is pitch a #1 for your list: 

Broad Run #1, Par 5.  I think Rees did a great job on this hole.  Unfortunately, the next 17 aren't nearly as good.