AAC II. Results. Are. In.

[Nick Campanelli]

Here is the routing over the topo without the rendered layers.  Its interesting how character influences design...I looked at the site with tree lines in mind from the beginning.  If this site were tree-less, my approach would have likely been very different (i.e. the routing and hole detailing would have been designed to address wind, etc).  

[Tim Nugent]

Daryn, if you try to be all things to all people, you risk ending up being nothing to everyone.  Same holds true in routing a course.  The hard thing about finding a routing on this site is there is more than one can use.  The challenge is to make the best use of what is there.  Like playing poker, you have to decide which way you want to play your cards and decide what you should discard.  I thought you did an excellent job separating the great land from the just good land.  Sure, you gave away some potentially good holes, but got more back with what you kept.
If there was one trap just about everyone seemed to fall into, it was trying to incorporate as much of the site as possible rather than judiciously find a great course. OF course, I'm going on a faulty memory - it's been awhile, and I have to refer back to my notes.

[Alex Miller]

It would be really cool if the judges could share their favorite holes from the routings they saw!

[Mike Nuzzo]

Tim
If it is an easy walk & has good flow, what difference does it make where the course goes?

I'm looking forward to taking your money when we play poker together..... 
Cheers

[Tim Nugent]

Mike, I think you answered your own question.  If all you are looking for is an easy walk and good flow, that is.

Thanks for the insight to your poker strategy 

[Daryn_Soldan]

Interesting point, Nick, about the site vegetation - or lack of. I envisioned an open, tree-less site from the beginning and thought it prudent to incorporate some long views over the course at certain points in the routing. I was happy to find one early on - 3rd green / 4th tee - and then finish along the ridge with 17,18 and the clubhouse having views back out over the holes that have been played. I couldn't make up my mind on the order of the nines and this was one of the key aspects that played into my decision to number the holes as they are. Give the golfer a preview of what's to come early on from the clubhouse and 3g/4t and then let them see where they've come from as they finish.

Does it matter?... maybe, who knows. Do I think its kinda cool?... of course!

- Daryn

[Mike Nuzzo]

Tim

I'm looking for the best course possible - in this case no client - my preferences 100%.
Flow and walk help or support the cause.

I'm going to try and see it all if that makes the best course.

I'm not talking about the plan that had the holes spread out all over the place with walks as long as the holes...
It is hard for someone to understand the spacing between the holes - and how large they are even though they look tiny on the map.

Good luck keeping your money.... 

[Garland Bayley]

Nick,

Did you move a lot of dirt?

[Garland Bayley]

...
I hope we get to talk about the reasons - ask away.
...

I assume this is meant to encourage us to ask about the reasons for the results.

It would appear to me that the winner is the antithesis of Wolf Point. Narrow, long carries tee to fairway, long walks from green to tee, as far as I can tell significant dirt moving to create greensites,  but yet you had it at three on your score card. Could you explain why you rated it that way?

Nick,

Amazing job! I see I can't compete with young talented, perhaps obsessed ( ) people like you.

[Garland Bayley]

Will,

Your course looks like a heck of a lot of fun. I think those stuffed shirt judges need to lighten up and enjoy the quirk! Pampered tour pros and their whiny mouths not welcome at your place.

Mike,

How could you dare put Will next to last?

[Michael Taylor]

Thank you to all entrants and a big congratulations is in order for Nick! Superb effort champ!

I hope to enter this next year (when I can actually read a topo map properly).

Fellas, how long would you say it took you to complete all of your entry?

Pup

[Ally Mcintosh]

Great to have a quick flick through the entries... Well done Nick!..

With these things, it's always good fun when you see the other entries (especially if you see them before the results)... That's when the element of self-doubt kicks in as you see superior presentation styles and routing options that you hadn't though of...

I happen to think that presentation style always sub-consciously sways a judge's decision a little more than it should... But, at the same time, if it sways a knowledgeable GCA, imagine how important it is in making up a Client's opinion!...

I'd be very surprised if Mr.Nuzzo is not Judge No.2....

[Ally Mcintosh]

Will,

Your course looks like a heck of a lot of fun. I think those stuffed shirt judges need to lighten up and enjoy the quirk! Pampered tour pros and their whiny mouths not welcome at your place.

Mike,

How could you dare put Will next to last?

Without looking in to the detail of the holes (and the way they sit on the land), on a site this big and with no major brief to speak of, it's somewhat criminal to not have returning nines... I'd suggest that might be part of the reason, even though many on here will not consider it a necessity...

[Nick Campanelli]

Garland, you nailed it.  A majority of the earth moving can was done around the green sites.

Fairways were largely untouched.  To counter the fill around the greens, many of the fairway / greens bunkers were carved down into hollows (you can see the depressed bunkers on 1 fairway, near 4 green, 11 fairway, 16 fairway, 17 fairway, 18 fairway).

The wetlands on the front nine were considered prexisting in my mind (see post #61 in this thread) and could not be touched...although I would say 6 & 8 fairway may be too close to the naturalized areas for the EPA's liking 

Also, to be mentioned....the cut /fill calcs are not precise here.  I did my best to balance cut / fill given the time frame, and parameters of the exercise.   

[Nick Campanelli]

"It would appear to me that the winner is the antithesis of Wolf Point. Narrow, long carries tee to fairway, long walks from green to tee."

Looking back, I would say the routing is pretty weak tee to fairway.  The only tee shots that excite me would be 3,4,11,13,16,17,18.  I wish I had incorporated more in the way of options off the tee for the other 8 long holes.    

I'm sure others will point out further weaknesses, which I want and encourage of course.  

Mike Nuzzo's previous point regarding green to tee walking distances has been noted.  Question...is the walk length between tees diminished if it is downhill or level vs uphill?  The only significant uphill walks between holes can be seen approaching 7, 12, 14 ( if playing tips), 18.  

[Jim Colton]

Congrats Nick.  Very impressive entry.

I think it would be interesting to see what the results would be if the competitors voted on the entries other than their own.  Going through the entries, I can't help but have a few 'why didn't I think of that?' moments.  For my money, I think Daryn, Andy G and Alex Ms' entries are very strong.  And while it doesn't look great, I think Garland has a very good routing.

 

[Ed Oden]

I recommend that everyone check out entrant 12, Ed Oden's entry. Make sure to read his write up!
 

Thanks Garland.  Of course, there are no winners at The Recession Club.  Only survivors.

Ed

[JC Jones]

I recommend that everyone check out entrant 12, Ed Oden's entry. Make sure to read his write up!
 

Thanks Garland.  Of course, there are no winners at The Recession Club.  Only survivors.

Ed

I heard the members who were short on the place did quite well.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Ally,
Surprise.
Why would you think I'm #2?
There are some  significant differences of opinion on Jim & Gary's entries between judges 1&2.

Recession Club was by far my favorite name.
I had Ed's plan pretty high.
I liked his flow and change of directions.
He got more credit for hanging around the cool area.
While the contours were only a couple feet, he did loose some points for the way he handled some terrain.

Garland
I didn't put Will next to last.
While it looked a little crazy - his was the one submission that I let slide a little - I could see his ideas vs. his execution.
I liked his flow and change of direction.
The four finishers in the basin area didn't help.

Cheers

[Ally Mcintosh]

Ally,
Surprise.
Why would you think I'm #2?
There are some  significant differences of opinion on Jim & Gary's entries between judges 1&2.

Well that didn't pay off, eh?... In truth, it was a little bit of a shot in the dark that would have looked better if correct... It was only based on a quick look at the 2 or 3 entries that divided the judges the most... And whilst I know Philip, I don't know you or Tim... But you do reckon you pick up some of the high level differences in thinking by watching the ins and outs on here...

I'm going to look in more detail tonight to see which are my favourite schemes...

EDIT - Actually it was No.1 who I thought you would be Mike... For some reason, I reckoned that Jim Colton's routing would suit you more than Tim and Philip...

[Tim Nugent]

Tim
...I'm not talking about the plan that had the holes spread out all over the place with walks as long as the holes...
It is hard for someone to understand the spacing between the holes - and how large they are even though they look tiny on the map.

Daryn, if you try to be all things to all people, you risk ending up being nothing to everyone.  Same holds true in routing a course.  The hard thing about finding a routing on this site is there is more than one can use.  The challenge is to make the best use of what is there.  Like playing poker, you have to decide which way you want to play your cards and decide what you should discard.  I thought you did an excellent job separating the great land from the just good land.  Sure, you gave away some potentially good holes, but got more back with what you kept.
If there was one trap just about everyone seemed to fall into, it was trying to incorporate as much of the site as possible rather than judiciously find a great course.

Mike, just what is it you are taking exception to here?

[Ed Oden]

I recommend that everyone check out entrant 12, Ed Oden's entry. Make sure to read his write up!
 

Thanks Garland.  Of course, there are no winners at The Recession Club.  Only survivors.

Ed

I heard the members who were short on the place did quite well.

True.  Seems like there are always a few a**holes smarter than everyone else.  They're all on the Green Committee now.

Ed

[Nick Campanelli]

I recommend that everyone check out entrant 12, Ed Oden's entry. Make sure to read his write up!
 

Thanks Garland.  Of course, there are no winners at The Recession Club.  Only survivors.

Ed

I heard the members who were short on the place did quite well.

True.  Seems like there are always a few a**holes smarter than everyone else.  They're all on the Green Committee now.

Ed

....and the only "green" they know about it money.

[JC Jones]

I recommend that everyone check out entrant 12, Ed Oden's entry. Make sure to read his write up!
 

Thanks Garland.  Of course, there are no winners at The Recession Club.  Only survivors.

Ed

I heard the members who were short on the place did quite well.

True.  Seems like there are always a few a**holes smarter than everyone else.  They're all on the Green Committee now.

Ed

Now, are they a**holes because they are smarter than everyone else or a**holes because they are on the Green Committee.  Or, do they become a**holes after they become members of the Green Committee.  Are you saying that power corrupts at the Recession Club?

[Will Peterson]

Garland,

Thank you for your kind words.  I went into the contest figuring that I would be last, but had a great time doing it.  When I finished the drawing (my first ever attempt to draw to scale or on a computer) I wasn't going to submit it, but I really wanted to hear what others had to say about the general idea of the course as the execution of the drawing was quite lacking. 

I am completely blown away by many of the other entries, and can't fathom the amount of time they put into them.

I thought that the non-returning nines could be a problem.  I will admit that I did just make a bunch of holes, and then when near completion realized that I hadn't placed a clubhouse.  I had the 10th as the 9th for a long time, but the back nine was not getting to where I wanted it.  I also had a very plain 8th, so a tweaked the front a bit adding 7, 8, and 9.  This gave me the room I wanted on the back.

I would like to thank all those involved.  I had a lot of fun with the whole process, and really learned a lot about what goes into a design.  I now may be a little less critical about small details at courses I play.