Pre and Post Depression public and resort community courses

[mike_malone]

 David,

   I understand Mike's tendency to get overly enthused about Cobbs. That's what fuels his efforts for its restoration. Your "lawyerly" attacks are just boorish attempts to catch someone in hyperbole and try to pillory them.

[Kyle Harris]

David,

He's interested, on some level. I just think making superlative statements takes away from such analysis. If something is the best, why discuss it?

It's the best, Jerry! The best!

I'd be curious to discuss the various ways to play the opening hole. How that compares to other openers, public and private, etc. It's always been interesting to me that the first tee shot can be attempted in a variety of approaches but the real need to make a 4 on the hole plays into the mind of the golfer and perhaps clouds that decision.

[mike_malone]

 Kyle,

    I try to get as close to the creek on the left leaving a shorter approach even though the angle is less favorable and the bunker by the green becomes an issue. It certainly is better than the lame #1 at BPB.

[Kyle Harris]

Kyle,

    I try to get as close to the creek on the left leaving a shorter approach even though the angle is less favorable and the bunker by the green becomes an issue. It certainly is better than the lame #1 at BPB.

Agreed.

And I think playing out to the right is the key. A restoration of the bunker and fairway around the green would make your angle much more difficult with the potential to be on the road!

[DMoriarty]

Mike Malone.

Thanks for the insults.  Nothing as pertinent as bashing a lawyer who hasn't practiced in years.

I think Cobb's was likely a very good course.   I'd like to be a supporter of legitimate attempts to get it respectfully restored.  But pretending it is more that it was and or hyping it well beyond reason is dishonest and counterproductive, and is probably not in Cobb's best interest in the long run.    Certainly it cuts against what this website is supposed to be about.  This is not the first or only time Cirba has pulled this crap.  It is a running theme with him, and he cannot seem to control himself.   Perhaps if his friends were less willing to put up with his endless embarrassments he wouldn't put himself in these positions.   But I guess that isn't the Philadelphia way.

Bottom line is that if Cirba wants to make the case for what he is claiming then let him make it.   But you and I both know that he is entirely incapable of making such case.   Pardon me for expecting better on this website.  

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Kyle,

I'm sure Cirba would be glad to discuss Cobb's forever, but whether Mike is capable of understanding this or not, his comment wasn't just about Cobb's so much as it was about how Cobb's compared to all of the other public courses that existed in he country prior to 1936!      But the rest of the courses are apparently nothing but stepping stones from on top of which he can phoist Cobb's ever higher.  

While I don't think this is the place for this conversation or Mike a worthy participant, such a discussion would have to start with identifying the better public courses that existed prior to 1936.    I am not qualified to offer such list in any completeness, and I doubt anyone here is except possibly for Tom MacWood.   Might be a good question to throw open in a different thread, but surely Mike will find a way into turning that into his 932nd thread about the greatness of the usual suspects.  

[Kyle Harris]

David,

The thing is, there is significance in these finds. I think what's been underlying is that a massive public campaign can push for accessible municipal golf AND that it requires a public backing to maintain and assemble that.

Furthermore, we can probably learn a little about a certain design process since the methods were so publically reported. In the context of later writings of the players involved, we can use Cobbs as an interesting gauge of the on-going process of learning golf architecture away from prior methods - namely template use.

[DMoriarty]

Kyle,  

I agree that the "finds" are significant.  Despite the numbskulls who surround him, Joe Bausch has been a tremendous asset to this website.     The travesty is the way these "finds" are twisted to support conjecture that they just do not support.    I am a bit shocked that Joe Bausch puts up with it, but to each his own i guess.

[Mike Cirba]

David,

Have a great day! 

[DMoriarty]

David,

I'm glad you came back to show everyone your true colors.

You sound like a very unhappy man and I feel pity for you.

As usual Mike, you are wrong on all counts.  

[TEPaul]

"I agree that the "finds" are significant.  Despite the numbskulls who surround him, Joe Bausch has been a tremendous asset to this website.     The travesty is the way these "finds" are twisted to support conjecture that they just do not support.    I am a bit shocked that Joe Bausch puts up with it, but to each his own i guess."


Apparently you think a tremendous asset to this website is someone who doesn't carefully question how a numbskull like you twists his "finds" to support conjecture that those "finds" don't support. Exhibit A is the essay "The Missing Faces of Merion" and your months of convoluted and idiotic follow-up commentary on here to support it.

[DMoriarty]

Apparently you think a tremendous asset to this website is someone who doesn't carefully question how a numbskull like you twists his "finds" to support conjecture that those "finds" don't support. Exhibit A is the essay "The Missing Faces of Merion" and your months of convoluted and idiotic follow-up commentary on here to support it.

Yawn.

[Mike Cirba]

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[DMoriarty]

Like it or not Mike, my critique of your methodology is dead-on.   I mean look at this last post!  I doubt anyone is surprised you can come to such far reaching and ridiculous conclusions about me (even how I spent my day?) based on so little information.  Typical, even in your indignation.

However,Tom...whether you acknowledge the fact or not, at the time it was built until the 1930s with the creation of Bethpage, Cobbs was the best and most challenging public golf course in the country.

I've played Cobbs many times and like the course, but this is an asinine statement, even for you, Mike.

What else can I say Mike?  It was and is an asinine statement.   Even for you.

[John Moore II]

You know, is it really not possible for you people to act like grown ass men and not like a couple of teenage girls having a slap fight?

[Mike Cirba]

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[John Moore II]

Mike-You actually covered just about every point possible in your last post. So David can't get over the fact that you called his essay junk, fine. I've told him, personally off the board, that I thought the same thing about his essay for reasons that might be a bit different than yours, but I told him nonetheless. However, that comment was directed towards him as well, not just you. The both of you act like children, your sharp remark to Tom MacWood about "whether you like it or not" starting the whole matter and now its just spiraled downhill quickly like it tends to do, and did on ever how many other threads. At this point, this thread has degenerated into a two-way pissing contest between the two of you, the other major combatants from other threads haven't dared to wade into this water.

And yeah, maybe you should just ignore him, if thats the case. If you quite responding to him, he'll run out of stuff to say eventually. Thats what I would do.

[Mike Cirba]

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[John Moore II]

Mike, for what its worth, I didn't really consider Tom MacWood's comment to be insulting or inflammatory. I did, to a certain degree, think your's was meant as a real snap back and not entirely civil. But whatever, these threads all tend to go downhill fast, sadly.

[Mike Cirba]

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[Mike Cirba]

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[Mike Cirba]

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[Tom MacWood]

However,Tom...whether you acknowledge the fact or not, at the time it was built until the 1930s with the creation of Bethpage, Cobbs was the best and most challenging public golf course in the country.

Is that right?

[Tom MacWood]

Was Cobbs Creek better and more challenging than all these golf courses? By the way that is a rhetorical question.

Harding Park (1925)
Haggins Oak (1932)
Sharp Park (1931)
Griffith Park (1923)
Lake Chabot (1923)
Brookside Muni (1928)
Patty Jewett (1919)
Rock Manor (1921)
Jacksonville Muni (1923)
Hyde Park, Fl (1924)
Bobby Jones (1926)
Tarpon Springs (1927)
Savanah Muni (1926)
Deerpath (1927)
Sandy Hollow (1930)
St. Andrews (1926)
Duck Creek (1920)
Coffin (1920)
Waveland (1901)
Erskine Park (1925)
Keller (1929)
Seneca (1935)
Riverside Muni (1931)
Mount Pleasant (1933)
Rackham (1924)
Swope Park (1934)
Forest Park (1908)
Bayside (1930)
Salisbury Links (1908)
La Tourette (1930)
Split Rock
Durand-Eastman (1934)
Hyde Park, NY (1927)
Bethpage-Red (1935)
Bethpage-Blue (1935)
Ashville Muni (1927)
Ottawa Park (1898)
Community (1912)
Mill Creek (1928)
Eastmoreland (1918)
Hershey Park (1931)
Stevens Park (1924)
Tenison Park (1924)
Brackenridge Park (1917)
Memorial Park (1935)
Brown Deer (1929)
Triggs Memorial (1933)
Indian Canyon (1935)
Janesville Muni
Nemadji Muni (1932)
East Potomac (1920)

[Mike Cirba]

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[Tom MacWood]

It didn't take long; I have a lot of resources. I missed a couple of Chicago entries:

Harding Park (1925)
Haggins Oak (1932)
Sharp Park (1931)
Griffith Park (1923)
Lake Chabot (1923)
Brookside Muni (1928)
Patty Jewett (1919)
Rock Manor (1921)
Jacksonville Muni (1923)
Hyde Park, Fl (1924)
Bobby Jones (1926)
Tarpon Springs (1927)
Savanah Muni (1926)
Big Run (1930)
Deerpath (1927)
Glencoe (1923)
Palos (1919)
St. Andrews (1926)
Sandy Hollow (1930)
Duck Creek (1920)
Waveland (1901)
Beechwood (1931)
Coffin (1920)
Erskine Park (1925)
Keller (1929)
Seneca (1935)
Riverside Muni (1931)
Mount Pleasant (1933)
Rackham (1924)
Swope Park (1934)
Forest Park (1908)
Bayside (1930)
Salisbury Links (1908)
La Tourette (1930)
Split Rock (1901)
Durand-Eastman (1934)
Hyde Park, NY (1927)
Bethpage-Red (1935)
Bethpage-Blue (1935)
Ashville Muni (1927)
Ottawa Park (1898)
Community (1912)
Mill Creek (1928)
Eastmoreland (1918)
Hershey Park (1931)
Stevens Park (1924)
Tenison Park (1924)
Brackenridge Park (1917)
Memorial Park (1935)
Brown Deer (1929)
Triggs Memorial (1933)
Indian Canyon (1935)
Janesville Muni (1924)
Nemadji Muni (1932)
East Potomac (1920)