Starting Tues, 3/23/10 - Get To Know Jeff Mingay

[Jeff_Mingay]

Hi Ian.

What's up with this next batch of tough, and controversial questions?!!! Geez.

I'll give 'em a try:

McBroom or Carrick?
Too be honest, I don't think I've played a course designed by Doug... I've seen a few, but haven't played 'em. So, I'll go with Tom.

Cooke or Furber?
Honestly... I'm totally unfamiliar with their courses.

Best dead Canadian designer not named Thompson...
I don't think we should categorize Macdonald as Canadian, so it's gotta be Macan. Though, I want to mention that the Penguin continually provides really positive reports on a lot of Howard Watson's work in Quebec. I'm unfamiliar with Watson's stuff, too. Like Macan's architecture, Watson's work is very regional in scope. I haven't spent enough time in Quebec.

Best Thompson course outside the big five
Great question... there are many to consider, as you know. Kawartha looks pretty cool (haven't played it). Green Gables seems like it was really something when it originally opened for play (very different today). I'll go with Westmount (Kitchener).

Who's the better architect Suny or Zokol?
There's no Suny without Zokol and vice versa 

Best hole at Sagebrush
Tough question... you gotta love #2. I also love the simplicity of #6 and #14. Hmmm... I'll state the obvious: #2.

Is Cabot Links the best site in Canada
I think it's definitely the best site in development, for golf, in Canada. Yes. From a pure golfing perspective though, there's a remote site on the border of Saskatchewan and Alberta which I spent a week walking around, with Rod Whitman and Bill Coore, where there's a world top-50 (perhaps better) waiting to be made.

What one course best defines Canadian golf
Very interesting question. I'm not sure how to answer; but, for whatever reasons, Banff immediately came to mind.

What is the worst course in Canada or the biggest miss on a great site
Controversial question... hmmm. A certain course just popped into my head, but I refuse to answer! You had nothing to do with it   

I'll get to your last few questions in a few minutes... forgot, I have a job 

[Jeff_Mingay]

Ian,

I'm not very good at "best" lists. I just don't think about golf holes and courses that way. So, I'll provide some (hopefully) interesting, gut-reaction answers rather than holes which might be the "best". And, I presume you mean in Canada?

Best Par 3
#17 at Toronto Golf Club (Colt)

For the record, the famous "Devil's Cauldron" hole at Banff might be the most picturesque, but I don't think it's the "best".

Best Short Par 4
I really like #5 at Hamilton (Colt)

Best Long Par 4
Hmmm... what's long these days?!!! How about #12 at Royal Colwood (Macan). This is a really wild, bunker-less hole which measures about 450 yards, featuring a blind tee shot up and over a steep bank, and plays to a really severe green. Cool hole.

Best Par 5
This is very bias, but I've always loved #15 at Blackhawk (Whitman).

[Jeff_Mingay]

Five course Canadian Open rotation?

Another challenging question, which would be made easier if the RCGA decided to use a reduced flight "tournament ball" 

Shoe-ins
Shaughnessy
Hamilton
St. George's (it's going to be interesting to see how the tournament plays out this year)

Musts (if you know what I mean)
Glen Abbey (as much as I don't like the course, the place has a history with this championship)
Royal Montreal (same)

There's a pretty obvious five. I guess I'm unfamiliar with which courses out there do have potential to host, with some modification. Penguin tells me there are a couple such courses in the Montreal area, for example. The names of these courses escape me at the moment though. Which are they, Ian? 

[Jeff_Mingay]

Dale,

Back to the favourite "aha moment" working on a course...

I often have "aha moments" when shaping; particularly bunkers. Quite often you start shaping with a general idea, then arrive at an "aha... this is stupidly cool" moment 

I can't say there's a "Canadian golf architecture", no. Which is good.

UK favourite? It's difficult not to say the Old Course; but I'm a huge fan of the best heathland courses, too. "Hidden Gem": Elie. I'm pretty sure I'd enjoy playing at Elie everyday for the rest of my life.

[Jeff_Mingay]

If you could select any one project in Canada to do – what would it be?

Ian,

I feel very lucky right now. Very lucky. The two projects I was most anxious to work on over the past 5 years and more are Cabot Links and Victoria Golf Club. Both are underway, as we speak. To be working next to both oceans, at very special properties simultaneously, is pretty frickin' cool. I'm very privileged.

Aside from these two projects, I'd be really cool to build a new course (with my mentor, Rod Whitman) on the sand dune property at the Sask./Alberta border I mentioned above. And, through my "connection" with Vernon Macan, Royal Colwood and Shaughnessy have special places in my heart, to be honest. In my view, Colwood is as historically significant as Toronto Golf Club and should be properly restored. Shaughnessy was Macan's last "big project"; and, there's a lot of historical info. out there on his work at Shaughnessy that could lead to an exciting, important restoration project.  

This is the short answer. I'm sure I could come up with another handful if I thought about it for a bit  

[Ian Andrew]

If you could select any one project in Canada to do – what would it be?

Shaughnessy was Macan's last "big project"; and, there's a lot of historical info. out there on his work at Shaughnessy that could lead to an exciting, important restoration project.  

You realize Shaughnessy is going to disappear in 2033 when the Musqueam Indian Band takes back the land.

[Jeff_Mingay]

If you could select any one project in Canada to do – what would it be?

Shaughnessy was Macan's last "big project"; and, there's a lot of historical info. out there on his work at Shaughnessy that could lead to an exciting, important restoration project.  

You realize Shaughnessy is going to disappear in 2033 when the Musqueam Indian Band takes back the land.

Yeah, but that's 23 years from now 

[Gary Slatter]

Jeff

Do you have any shares in Creemore Springs, Ontario's finest draught beer?

Would your Sagebrush bunkers have been possible without mechanical diggers?

What do you think of Mad River?  Crowbush?

Do you know whatever happened to the Muylaert Brothers?  I felt they were pretty good with limited budgets.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Hi Gary.

You must know that there was in fact a Mingay connection with Creemore Springs? My grandfather's brother, who used to have a farm near Creemore, was one of the original investors in the brewery. Years ago, we had a family reunion up at Creemore and there was way too much Creemore Springs to go around!

Would your Sagebrush bunkers have been possible without mechanical diggers?

Well... theoretically, yes. But they would have required A LOT of work to create, with regard to moving dirt. As you know, there are a large number of bunkers throughout the course; and, A LOT of dirt, which had to be moved to other areas of the course, came out of the ground to create them.

What do you think of Mad River? Crowbush?

Unfortunately, I've not been to Mad River. Always wanted to see the course though. Someday.

As for Crowbush, there are a lot of things I like about the course; yet, other things I don't. I think there are a number of holes - most notably #9 - which appear "over-shaped". And, every time I've been there, the course is very green, soft, and stripe-mown. It's look, from a maintenance perspective, contrasts the property/setting, in my opinion.

McBroom looked at me like I was "nuts" when I told him one of my favourite holes - along with #15 and #18, there - is the par-3 17th. So many golfers apparently dislike this hole. I think it's one of the most original holes Tom McBroom has designed.

Do you know whatever happened to the Muylaert Brothers?

I believe Rene is deceased. Not sure about his brother.

[George Pazin]

Terrific answers, Jeff, thanks for addressing everything in such detail.

Have you ever had the opportunity to work on a course in the US? Or anywhere other than Canada? (apologies in advance if this was in an answer and I missed it! )

[Jeff_Mingay]

Hi George.

I'm consulting at Overlake Golf and Country Club, in Seattle. Overlake was originally designed by Vernon Macan, during the early 1950s. Otherwise, my work is confined to Canada at the moment.

This said, I'm always ready and willing to go anywhere there's an interesting project to take on!

[Bob Jenkins]

Jeff,

Thank you for your prompt answers.  Have you spent time at another Macan, Kelowna Golf & CC? From the club website he did the lay out for a revised 18 hole course in about 1960 (about the time he was working on Shaughnessy, as I recall) and then Graham Cooke designed 4 new holes in the 1990s necessitated by the expansion of Glenmore drive. From what I have seen, the current bunkers do not have a Macan "look" (considering old photos of Colwood and Marine) and are fairly simple. Were they redesigned at some point by someone else, possibly Graham Cooke? Do you know of any movement at Kelowna to restore, at least restore what remains of the 18 holes designed by Macan?

Approach shots into the greens at Richmond are the most frustrating I have ever played. Nothing seems to hold the green and even a bump and run will often fall off. Weren't the greens a lot slower in Macan's day which would have made them more accessible?

Thanks for you participation and all the best!

Bob Jenknis

[Jeff_Mingay]

Hi Bob.

The timing of this "get to know..." session worked out well relative to a necessity to catch up on some computer work over the past few days, which accounts for my prompt answers.

Re Kelowna G&CC. I'm quite familiar with the course, and the Macan legacy there. It's a neat course with some good potential. In fact, if I were a summer resident at Kelowna, my preference would be Kelowna G&CC over most of the "modern masterpieces" in and around the city.  

I know that many at Kelowna G&CC are aware of the course's unique architectural heritage, but know of no "movement" to "restore" at the moment. Hopefully this may change. Again, there's good potential at Kelowna G&CC... and, as at so many aged courses, in many areas it's a simple matter of improvement to mowing patterns and some tree work = inexpensive + non-intrusive work.  

Re the greens at Richmond, I sympathize with your plight   Those greens were indeed much slower when Macan designed them, during the 1950s. They're really "something else", arent they!

[Sean Leary]

Hi George.

I'm consulting at Overlake Golf and Country Club, in Seattle. Overlake was originally designed by Vernon Macan, during the early 1950s. Otherwise, my work is confined to Canada at the moment.

This said, I'm always ready and willing to go anywhere there's an interesting project to take on!

What are you doing at Overlake? Have you seen Bill Gates there?

How much original Macan is left there? Also, have you seen Lake Spanaway? I have always felt that  that place could be very very good.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Hi Sean.

Interesting you mention Lake Spanaway. As I understand, this is the course Macan was working on when he died. In fact, if memory serves correct, he was heading back from Washington State (working at Lake Spanaway) to Victoria when he died. I've been in touch with people at Lake Spanaway throughout my research on Macan's architecture, and look forward to seeing the course some time in the near future. I'm very encouraged that you say Lake Spanaway has some potential.

Re Overlake. Macan's routing is intact, and takes good advantage of the club's property; which, as you know, provides a good framework for golf course improvement. Historical info. on Macan's work here is very vague though. We're not 100% sure about the history of the greens; but, nonetheless, Overlake features a really nice collection of varied and interesting green complexes. So, with a solid routing of holes and a nice collection of green complexes in place, we're pitching the usual: Green surface expansion and relative adjustment to fairway mowing patterns; some tree work (including removal and planting); and, the bunkers need work relative to function, which provides opportunity to restore a "Macan style". Recommendation for golf course improvement at Overlake is pretty simple actually; but, the result will be substantial.

Mr. Gates is a member, but I haven't seen him around yet. He must be busy with other things 

[Philippe Binette]

Hey Jeff,

are you the real Jeff Mingay ?

dissapointed you didn't name me as the best canadian architect 


most influential course in your career ?

best course you've seen on a difficult site ?

weirdest design idea you've done on a site (must be your idea, not some weirdo asking you to do it)

penguin

[Sean Leary]

Hi Sean.

Interesting you mention Lake Spanaway. As I understand, this is the course Macan was working on when he died. In fact, if memory serves correct, he was heading back from Washington State (working at Lake Spanaway) to Victoria when he died. I've been in touch with people at Lake Spanaway throughout my research on Macan's architecture, and look forward to seeing the course some time in the near future. I'm very encouraged that you say Lake Spanaway has some potential.

Re Overlake. Macan's routing is intact, and takes good advantage of the club's property; which, as you know, provides a good framework for golf course improvement. Historical info. on Macan's work here is very vague though. We're not 100% sure about the history of the greens; but, nonetheless, Overlake features a really nice collection of varied and interesting green complexes. So, with a solid routing of holes and a nice collection of green complexes in place, we're pitching the usual: Green surface expansion and relative adjustment to fairway mowing patterns; some tree work (including removal and planting); and, the bunkers need work relative to function, which provides opportunity to restore a "Macan style". Recommendation for golf course improvement at Overlake is pretty simple actually; but, the result will be substantial.

Mr. Gates is a member, but I haven't seen him around yet. He must be busy with other things 

Did Macan do any work at Everett Golf and CC that you are aware of? I have tried to do a little research about its history but haven't come up with much. Since he worked on most of the better courses in the NW it would not surprise me if he did.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Ian, my friend,

I've had a revelation re one of your question of earlier today: If you could select any one project in Canada to do – what would it be?

It's easy to answer Cabot Links, Victoria GC, the dunes property in Alberta, Royal Colwood and Shaughnessy. (Blah.)

This might sound a bit cheesy, and perhaps self-serving to some, but I've had a couple calls recently from established Canadian golf clubs with mediocre courses. I really enjoy the challenge of trying to make something cool out of nothing per se. I sincerely enjoy this type of project. As you know, every golf property offers something to work with; and when everyone involved with such a project comes to be "on the same page" - and, of couse, there's money to do what needs to be done - some mediocre golf courses throughout our country can really become "something".

I'd like to be involved with more of these types of projects, if possible.   

[Jeff_Mingay]

Penguin,

You're the best Canadian golf architect who hasn't designed a golf course yet... you know that 

are you the real Jeff Mingay ?
I think so... but, I could be the Canadian golf architectural equivilant of Paul McCartney walking across Abbey Road with no shoes on... if you know what I mean 

most influential course in your career ?
Undoubtedly Blackhawk (Edmonton, Alberta), for more reasons than I can spout out at the moment, unfortunately.

best course you've seen on a difficult site ?
I'm presuming you want me to say Sagebrush... right?!!!

weirdest design idea you've done on a site (must be your idea, not some weirdo asking you to do it)
C'mon. You know me. I don't implement "weird design ideas" 

[Jeff_Mingay]

Did Macan do any work at Everett Golf and CC that you are aware of? I have tried to do a little research about its history but haven't come up with much. Since he worked on most of the better courses in the NW it would not surprise me if he did.

[/quote]

Sean,

I don't know anything about the history of Everett G&CC. When was the course originally constructed?

Macan claimed to work at nearly every golf club in the Pacific Northwest - with a few exceptions - throughout his career. So, Everett is a possibility, depending...

[George Pazin]

What was your biggest surprise when you began working in the field?

Any books planned for the future?

[Jeff_Mingay]

George,

I don't know what my "biggest surprise" was, when I began working in the field. But I'll never forget Rod Whitman telling me, years ago, that "10% of this is about philosophizing on golf architecture... the other 90% is just hard work". This has proven true.

As for (another) book, I do have a manuscript in the works actually. It's been in the works too long, to be honest. But there were some complications relative to my publishing contract that sorta "took the wind out of my sails" a few years ago. I am in the process of revisiting my manuscript though, hopeful that it will develop as I've imagined.

[Michael Rossi]

Jeff

Do you know whatever happened to the Muylaert Brothers?  I felt they were pretty good with limited budgets.

Gary

Jeff is unfortunately correct Rene did pass, Charlie opened a bar with his son in Guelph called Squirrel tooth Alice. My dad worked for them for years and I worked for them at the beginning of my career. What a pair. Charlie still lives in Nobelton and shows up at sites once and a while.

[Jeff_Mingay]

"Squirrel Tooth Alice"?!!!

What a great name for a bar 

[Garland Bayley]

Jeff,

How do we get Ran to get Royal Colwood off his next fifty list, and into Courses by Country?
Does Bob need to send him a special invite to Sagebrush in August with follow on trip to Royal Colwood?