[Guy Nicholson]

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Highlands Links in Nova Scotia.  Some of those green-to-the next tee box walks are legendary.

Chris,

HL certainly isn't an easy walk, but I don't think it's not as tough as it's made out to be. A friend and I did it twice one very hot day last summer, and it's not like either of us was in amazing shape. It's true, a few of those green-to-tee hikes are legendary -- 6 to 7, 12 to 13, 15 to 16 -- but most of the others are pretty short.

[Sam Morrow]

Does anybody think highly of Lakota Canyons? If so then I think it counts.

[Jim Sweeney]

Paa-Ko Ridge is a difficult walk from the tips. On many holes one has to dounle back and climb steep hills to elevated tees. The add the 6.000 ft. elevation and the 15% humidity and you get a combination of oxygen deficit and every bit of mucous membrane as dry as old newspaper. What fun! Worth every step.

[Bill_McBride]

Paa-Ko Ridge is a difficult walk from the tips. On many holes one has to dounle back and climb steep hills to elevated tees. The add the 6.000 ft. elevation and the 15% humidity and you get a combination of oxygen deficit and every bit of mucous membrane as dry as old newspaper. What fun! Worth every step.

I didn't really consider walking either Paa-ko Ridge or Black Mesa, the elevation scared me off.  Turned out to be a good decision.

[Sean_A]

Guys...any old course is walkable...every person who ever played them before carts existed managed to walk.  Everyone who ever played Bandon Trails walked.  These don't count!  They cannot be that tough.

What courses which are basically unwalkable are the best?  And what Doak ranking would you give it?

Is a Doak 7 the highest one of these courses has ever achieved?  Can anyone name a course they give a Doak 8 that is basically unwalkable?


Bart

Bart

I have never played a non-walking course I thought was great, but then I try to avoid strictly riding courses because I believe they are inherently flawed.  Its not just the walking aspect, but how the golfer interacts with the terrain and if the course is unwalkable then I bet there will be some stupid holes.  Why does the conversation have to stick with unwalkable courses?

Ciao

[Bart Bradley]

Guys...any old course is walkable...every person who ever played them before carts existed managed to walk.  Everyone who ever played Bandon Trails walked.  These don't count!  They cannot be that tough.

What courses which are basically unwalkable are the best?  And what Doak ranking would you give it?

Is a Doak 7 the highest one of these courses has ever achieved?  Can anyone name a course they give a Doak 8 that is basically unwalkable?


Bart

Bart

I have never played a non-walking course I thought was great, but then I try to avoid strictly riding courses because I believe they are inherently flawed.  Its not just the walking aspect, but how the golfer interacts with the terrain and if the course is unwalkable then I bet there will be some stupid holes.  Why does the conversation have to stick with unwalkable courses?

Ciao

Sean:

Obviously, the conversation doesn't have to stick with any particular topic   ...but the question I was trying to ask was "how good can a course be if it is unwalkable and what is the best course that meets that description?". 

Thanks,

Bart

[Nick Campanelli]

The Shattuck Golf Club in Jaffrey, NH.  Literally built on the side of Mt. Monadnock.  Stunning views, very difficult course, and if you walk, you will put in an additional two miles of walking up and down hills between greens and tees.  Still worth multiple trips!

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Has anyone walked the Ocean Course at Kiawah without takin the shuttle to the first tee and between 9-10?... If it weren't for that shuttle it would be a disaster! Plus walking through all that sand can be very hard.

Others I agree with: Yale, BPB and I'd say Bayonne is in, but boarderline.

Non 10-8's... RNK is in, but Stonehouse another Stranz in Williamsburg is even worse. RNK has 9 miles of cartpath, Stonehouse has 11

That space between Nines wasn't planned.  This is from a Charleston "Post & Courier" article from a few years ago:

One of the most noticeable things about the design of the Ocean Course is the expansive area between the front and back nines.

When Dye was building the course, construction had to fall within what is termed the "critical line." Dye said the critical line came right along the ocean, near the original 18th green, doglegged back to the area of the clubhouse and then jutted back out to the dunes.

Dye said that the reason for the dogleg was that when the area was being surveyed for the critical line that the surveyor had followed the dunes, but when he walked over to his truck for his lunch break, he dropped a stake. So, on the maps, the critical line jogged inward.

Dye continued working, but he also lobbied then Gov. Carroll Campbell to help in getting the critical line moved out.

That didn't help in tying the two nines together, but it did allow the owners to build the practice range and clubhouse in their present location.

[Sean_A]

Has anyone walked the Ocean Course at Kiawah without takin the shuttle to the first tee and between 9-10?... If it weren't for that shuttle it would be a disaster! Plus walking through all that sand can be very hard.

Others I agree with: Yale, BPB and I'd say Bayonne is in, but boarderline.

Non 10-8's... RNK is in, but Stonehouse another Stranz in Williamsburg is even worse. RNK has 9 miles of cartpath, Stonehouse has 11

That space between Nines wasn't planned.  This is from a Charleston "Post & Courier" article from a few years ago:

One of the most noticeable things about the design of the Ocean Course is the expansive area between the front and back nines.

When Dye was building the course, construction had to fall within what is termed the "critical line." Dye said the critical line came right along the ocean, near the original 18th green, doglegged back to the area of the clubhouse and then jutted back out to the dunes.

Dye said that the reason for the dogleg was that when the area was being surveyed for the critical line that the surveyor had followed the dunes, but when he walked over to his truck for his lunch break, he dropped a stake. So, on the maps, the critical line jogged inward.

Dye continued working, but he also lobbied then Gov. Carroll Campbell to help in getting the critical line moved out.

That didn't help in tying the two nines together, but it did allow the owners to build the practice range and clubhouse in their present location.

Anybody, what the heck is a "critical line"?  

Does anybody think the course was worth redoing based on the critical line?  Its not as if the 1st is a stunner or the 4th and 5th (far end to the east) are not replaceable.  IMO, this cart to the 1st and from the 9th to 10th is a huge glitch in the routing.

Bart

I don't know the answer to your question.  I spose, theoretically, one could have the greatest course on earth be a non-walker.  That would be something to see.

Ciao

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Has anyone walked the Ocean Course at Kiawah without takin the shuttle to the first tee and between 9-10?... If it weren't for that shuttle it would be a disaster! Plus walking through all that sand can be very hard.

Others I agree with: Yale, BPB and I'd say Bayonne is in, but boarderline.

Non 10-8's... RNK is in, but Stonehouse another Stranz in Williamsburg is even worse. RNK has 9 miles of cartpath, Stonehouse has 11

That space between Nines wasn't planned.  This is from a Charleston "Post & Courier" article from a few years ago:

One of the most noticeable things about the design of the Ocean Course is the expansive area between the front and back nines.

When Dye was building the course, construction had to fall within what is termed the "critical line." Dye said the critical line came right along the ocean, near the original 18th green, doglegged back to the area of the clubhouse and then jutted back out to the dunes.

Dye said that the reason for the dogleg was that when the area was being surveyed for the critical line that the surveyor had followed the dunes, but when he walked over to his truck for his lunch break, he dropped a stake. So, on the maps, the critical line jogged inward.

Dye continued working, but he also lobbied then Gov. Carroll Campbell to help in getting the critical line moved out.

That didn't help in tying the two nines together, but it did allow the owners to build the practice range and clubhouse in their present location.

Anybody, what the heck is a "critical line"?  

Does anybody think the course was worth redoing based on the critical line?  Its not as if the 1st is a stunner or the 4th and 5th (far end to the east) are not replaceable.  IMO, this cart to the 1st and from the 9th to 10th is a huge glitch in the routing.

Bart

I don't know the answer to your question.  I spose, theoretically, one could have the greatest course on earth be a non-walker.  That would be something to see.

Ciao

The "Critical Line" is a line developed by environmental agencies saying that you can build on one side but can't build on the other.  It's a governmental thing...

[Greg Tallman]

Has to be a Pittsburgh area course in the mix. Just trying to think which is the toughest walk.

[Lester George]

Ballyhack is a very tough walk.

Lester

[John Moore II]

how about Tanglewood in the summer heat    yikes

I assume the heat is what you are saying makes it hard? Because I played there in late September one year and I don't remember off hand it having many hard walks, 10 fairway to green was fairly steep, as with 18 fairway to green. But beyond that, I remember it being mostly flat. This is the Championship Course I am talking about. Now the Reynolds Course, I don't remember much of, but I do kind of remember it having some fairly large hills.

[Zack Molnar]

I would say that Arcadia Bluffs in Northern Michigan is a pretty tough walk on some of those holes, especially if you're struggling to hit the fairways that day. Walking over those dunes all the time just wears you out.

[John Moore II]

The best course I've played that would be a tough walk day in-day out is TPC Wakefield Plantation. Its got some real big hills on the course and some long walks from green to tee in a good number of spots. I'd say Wakefield is a 4.5-5.

An ardent walker would have to be nuts to join that place.  

Yeah, but eventually that walking guy would figure out some short-cuts to cut out a lot of the walking. Following the cart part around would be really, really killer. I mean, whats the walk from 11 green to 12 tee and 17 green to 18 tee? At least 1/4 mile I'd say, if not a bit more.

[Jud_T]

Erin Hills will be a very interesting test case when it reopens this year as a walking only course....

[Scott_Burroughs]

The best course I've played that would be a tough walk day in-day out is TPC Wakefield Plantation. Its got some real big hills on the course and some long walks from green to tee in a good number of spots. I'd say Wakefield is a 4.5-5.

An ardent walker would have to be nuts to join that place.  

Yeah, but eventually that walking guy would figure out some short-cuts to cut out a lot of the walking. Following the cart part around would be really, really killer. I mean, whats the walk from 11 green to 12 tee and 17 green to 18 tee? At least 1/4 mile I'd say, if not a bit more.

Not to mention hitching on the back of all the cartballers's carts on the long treks....4 times a round.  The trek from 17 to 18 would be 1/4 mile, but not 11-12.

[John Moore II]

The best course I've played that would be a tough walk day in-day out is TPC Wakefield Plantation. Its got some real big hills on the course and some long walks from green to tee in a good number of spots. I'd say Wakefield is a 4.5-5.

An ardent walker would have to be nuts to join that place.  

Yeah, but eventually that walking guy would figure out some short-cuts to cut out a lot of the walking. Following the cart part around would be really, really killer. I mean, whats the walk from 11 green to 12 tee and 17 green to 18 tee? At least 1/4 mile I'd say, if not a bit more.

Not to mention hitching on the back of all the cartballers's carts on the long treks....4 times a round.  The trek from 17 to 18 would be 1/4 mile, but not 11-12.

But we didn't have the option of walking that one day. Wakefield would be a really, really good course if it was easier to walk, I think. Those distances are killer though.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bayonne is one of the toughtest walking courses I've ever played - extremely hilly, several backward walks from green to tee, and elevated tee boxes that require you to be part billy goat to traverse.  The icing on the cake is the 18th hole, which plays straight up the hill. 

Jim,

I found Bayonne to be a very difficult walk.

Perhaps it was because I had a double angioplasty two days later and the walking was made more difficult due to the restricted blood flow.

Then, four days later, after my double angioplasty I played Liberty National.

When I eagled the 9th (?) hole, my host said, "I can't believe you just got out of the hospital."
The other two fellows whom we were playing with didn't believe hiim when he told them that I just had a double angioplasty two days earlier.
When I lifted the right leg of my Bermuda shorts and showed them the basketball sized black/blue/yellow and purple bruise where they patched up my Femoral artery they almost fainted.  They asked me "WHY" I was playing golf.  I said, because I got tired of lying around in a hospital with tubes in my body, catheters in my dick and IV's in my arm and that I'd rather be out in the fresh air doing what I love, playing golf.

Given the choice between playing golf and being in a hospital, ALWAYS opt for golf.

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