[Bart Bradley]

Playing with fellow GCAer, Ed Oden, this Friday (walking 36 holes), the question arose:  What is the best course that is a very difficulty walk?  Ed says "that would make a good thread on GCA"...so here goes!

I found this a rather enlightening question.  I like to walk.  I walk most of the time.  I know that I would have said that I prefer a walking course to a cart course.  But here is the deal....I couldn't name 1 course that I would give a Doak 8 that I wouldn't happily walk.  I think this exercise is very illustratitive of the fact that good golf courses are good walks...Certainly, great golf course are good walks.  So, tell me, what is the best course you've played that is a very difficult walk/unwalkable?  What would you give it on the Doak scale?

Bart

[Joe Andriole]

Royal New Kent comes to mind.  Certainly not walkable

[John Moore II]

The best course I've played that would be a tough walk day in-day out is TPC Wakefield Plantation. Its got some real big hills on the course and some long walks from green to tee in a good number of spots. I'd say Wakefield is a 4.5-5.

Now the toughest walk I've ever had was at Tobacco Road. That place has a fair number of hills and a couple of long walks. However, the day I played it, the temp was hovering around 100, with no wind and near breathtaking humidity. Heat index was probably 115 or better. The Pit tends to have mad high temps as well. I'd give TR a 5.5-6, and say that if played in the summer months, its probably the toughest walk I've ever had.

Royal New Kent comes to mind.  Certainly not walkable

And on a scale of 1-10, where does RNK fall?

[Doug Spets]

sorry, posted to wrong thread

[John Moore II]

I highly recommend all Sun Mountain bags and all Ping hoofers.  They are great whether you want to single or double strap.

On the other hand, most Callaway, Taylor Made and Titleist double-strap bags are incredibly awkward if you only want to single strap it.

My recommendations are based solely on the ease of carrying the bag.  I can't speak for storage.

Did you post that in the wrong thread?? Just wondering

[Sam Morrow]

Kapalua?

[Tim Martin]

Yale is no easy walk. Just the walk from 9 green to 10 tee is an adventure.

[Matt Elliott]

Caves Valley is a pretty decent course and can be pretty tough to walk, especially in the dead of summer.

[Stan Dodd]

I think Bandon Trails is a tough walk.  Great course but up the hill on 16 is a death march.

[goldj]

Sutton Bay.  Probably a half mile from clubhouse to first tee.  Another half mile from latg green back to clubhouse.  Caddie said that he had never carried a bag there.

[Pete_Pittock]

Augusta National

or for that matter any of the Bandons in a 40+ wind.

[Ted Cahill]

Irish Course at Whistling Straits.  I am actually a big fan of this course in the throw everything I have at you Pete Dye design.  But, it is a difficult course to walk- hikes from greens to tees and many elevation changes (for a completely man made course)  Also, The Presido course in San Francisco- you get a work out schleping up and down those SF hill sides- great views and challenging track, though!

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Mayacama

[Michael Taylor]

I would think that NSW would rank right up near the top. I'd probably give it an 8 on the Doak rating, but that's my opinion.

I also think John Sabino would agree with me. 

Pup

[Matthew Petersen]

Castle Pines always features on best modern lists and is very difficult to walk. It doesn't have too many really lengthy green-to-tee walks, but the hills there are intense.

I will also second the Kapalua Plantation vote.

[Wayne Freeman]

I didn't think Castle Pines was that hard to walk but it was our third day there and we were pretty well aclimated.
Of courses that were meant to be played walking I would second Yale and add Bethpage Black.   I don't think Kapalua was designed to really have walkers.    Nanea is a really tough trek, but it can be done.

[Rob Rigg]

Kapalua - lots of fun - walked it a couple weeks ago with a caddie but they have to ferry you from green to tee on 5 to 6 and from tee to green on 8, then from green to tee between 9 and 10.

The back nine was not a tough walk, with caddie, IMO.

Overall, definitely more of a cart golf course than a walking golf course even with the pick up and drop offs (that the guys in the SBS get as well).

Fun course, gorgeous views, crazy wind and 400 yard drives - epic stuff.

[Sean Leary]

Pine Valley is not an easy walk. Not ridiculous but not easy either.

[Michael Robin]

I agree on Mayacama. Actually like it as it brings Stamina into the equation as you are playing the back 9.
3 others come to mind:

Highlands Links - Maybe the prettiest walk in the game.

Rock Creek Cattle Company - Gorgeous, but man that is a full hike at a bit of altitude.

Stone Eagle - Definately enjoy having the cart there.

[Kevin Pallier]

Bart

I dont think I've found a golf course that is unwalkable ?

That said - one of the tougher walks I've had was Bethpage Black - the combination of the heat / thick grass and elevation changes didn't bode well for me.

[Mike Hamilton]

Royal New Kent comes to mind.  Certainly not walkable

RNK is definitely a tough walk.  I doubt there is a tee box within 200 yards of the preceding green and a couple 300+ walks.  But I love to occasionally get out and play it.

[cary lichtenstein]

Bart

I dont think I've found a golf course that is unwalkable ?

How about Sanctuary?

[jonathan_becker]

Neither are unwalkable, but Erin Hills and Stone Eagle are pretty tough.  The hard part at Erin is  just getting to the tees.

[Cory Lewis]

Neither are unwalkable, but Erin Hills and Stone Eagle are pretty tough.  The hard part at Erin is  just getting to the tees.

One of the things I will never forget is having the starter at Erin Hills tell us "enjoy your 9.1 mile walk"

[Ed Oden]

Let me give a little context as to how the question came up.  We were toting our own bags at an ODG course and Bart manages to take a momentary break from canning 40 foot putts to ask whether walkability is an essential component of great courses and whether it is possible to have a great course that isn't walkable.  Not very good, but truly GREAT courses which can be considered among the best in the world.  Think Doak 9 here:  "An outstanding course—certainly one of the best in the world—with no weaknesses in regard to condition, length or poor holes. You should see this course sometime in your life."

I know that, in theory, every course is walkable...at least for Sherpas with the right gear and an established base camp.  I suspect there isn't a course in the world that hasn't been walked at some point by someone.  But some courses are clearly only walkable by the most devout.  I don't see how any golden age course can be part of the discussion since all were designed before the advent of the golf cart.  When created, they were intended to be walked.  That doesn't mean they aren't tougher walks relative to some other places.  So I think we are really only talking about modern courses.  Is there a truly great modern course that isn't walkable?  Here are the top 50 on Golfweek's modern list, which I believe roughly equates to a Doak 8:

1. Sand Hills Golf Club
2. Pacific Dunes
3. Whistling Straits (Straits)
4. Bandon Dunes
5. Ballyneal
6. Sebonack Golf Club
7. The Golf Club
8. Pete Dye Golf Club
9. Friar’s Head
10. Shadow Creek Golf Club
11. Muirfield Village Golf Club
12. Old Sandwich Golf Club
13. Kinloch Golf Club
14. Spyglass Hill Golf Club
15. Honors Course
16. TPC Sawgrass (Players Stadium)
17. Ocean Course at Kiawah Island
18. Wade Hampton Club
19. Kingsley Club
20. Chambers Bay Golf Club
21. Calusa Pines Golf Club
22. Colorado Golf Club
23. Bayonne Golf Club
24. Dunes Club
25. Dallas National Golf Club
26. Wild Horse Golf Club
27. Mayacama Golf Club
28. Bandon Trails
29. Castle Pines Golf Club
30. World Woods GC (Pine Barrens)
31. Harbour Town Golf Links
32. Desert Forest Golf Club
33. Monterey Peninsula CC (Shore)
34. Double Eagle Golf Club
35. Galloway National Golf Club
36. Boston Golf Club
37. Arcadia Bluffs
38. Gozzer Ranch
39. Blackwolf Run (River)
40. Pronghorn (Fazio)
41. Fallen Oak Golf Club
42. Paa-Ko Ridge Golf Club
43. Black Diamond Ranch (Quarry)
44. The Club at Cuscowilla
45. Whispering Pines Golf Club
46. Sutton Bay Club
47. The Preserve
48. Karsten Creek Golf Club
49. The Club at Black Rock
50. Quail Hollow Club

How far down on this list do you need to go before you find a course which isn't reasonably walkable?  If you find one, do you think it qualifies as a Doak 9?  Are there any non-US courses not listed above that qualify?  If not, does that lend credence to the notion that walkability is a core requirement for recognition as one of the greatest courses in the world?

Speaking only for myself and not for Bart, I really hope this doesn't degenerate into another anti cart thread.  That's been beat to death.  Let's just focus on the quality of the courses.

Ed

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