June! London!

[Mark Chaplin]

Brent - a very interesting assessment. In defence of the 16th it is a 500yd par 5 so unless on wants a simple birdie the hole needs some strength and that comes from a rolling approach/surround and a deep green with lots of slope. A player is far more likely to be short or long with a wedge or short pitch so the the green width is of little importance, however the green has no side bunkers so a long shot at the green needs to be perfect or close to perfect not to pull up short or be thrown off the sides.

Lots of people think 16 is a better par 4 then it is unfair as the green is too tough to hit when you have to in order to make par.

17 needs a bit of a relationship to fully understand the hole, downwind it is a real toughie as you have to pitch in the valley and run up the slope, against is easier as the breeze holds the ball into a very shallow green.

I'm delighted you had a successful trip and look forward to catching up again before too long.

[Sean_A]

All I can say, Hutto, is that you are a lucky dog!   

Perhaps the luckiest dogs of all were those who got to attend last year's Buda cup (for instance a certain Buda-ite got to play with Joe Fairey two or three times which is lucky in anyone's book).

That said, boy you aren't kidding! From the unexpectedly available frequent flier ticket, to the opportunity to play with Chaplin, Warren, Disher, Barber, Warren again and Muldoon and then the mountaintop experience of being shown around Royal St. George's by Mr. Justen Fiddler of the professional's staff it was just one of those special events in life that are everything you hope and then some. Oh and I got a super-cool Royal Cinque Ports headcover to replace the crap one that came with my Titleist driver.

Mike W,

I just wish I had a picture of my golf ball rolling thiiiiis close to the lip of the hole on the third at St. George's. Or maybe a picture of my resulting birdie putt rolling thiiiiis close to the same damned lip on the way back down the hill. The pro I was playing with told me on the first tee that every visitor to Royal St. George's plays putts outside the hole that are actually quite straight. After that putt on the third he said "I meant to say that most visitors play too much break on their putts here". You've gotta love a bit of dry Scottish humor. Of course he could have reminded me of that before I struck the putt but I guess he didn't want to lose the hole!

You seem less enthralled than myself concerning 16 & 17 at Deal - two holes I like just as much as 6 & 10.  What is the story?

I think for a single hole, combining a poor chance of a level spot being reachable with ones tee shot with a semi-blind view of the green over severe up-and-down terrain is a tough ask. And perfectly fine by me. Having two such holes back-to-back and actually three holes pretty much fitting that description in the closing stretch is a bit much. When I played there in 2006 I had the "prevailing" wind twice and sort of a Southeast-ish variant one round. So it was a fiendish slog home but what the hell.

This time I had a severely downwind (and intermittently rainy) back nine on Saturday and downwind with slightly less velocity the afternoon before. In theory the easier wind to deal with. Maybe it's a lefty thing (which was the view of one member whose name escapes me that we were talking to in the halfway house on Saturday) but Tony Muldoon as a righty also commented that downwind actually makes the shots more confounding on those holes. Basically there is no combination of conservative club selection, choice of aiming line and playing short to bounce onto the green which renders an "easy five" or even a "sure six" on those holes.

So as I say, one hole like that is awesome. Two or three spread throughout the round would be fine. Three of them in 45 minutes time is a bit much, even in match play. At least for double-digit handicappers. By comparison, the into-the-wind closing stretch at Princes was tough and with a couple of quirky shots but with any kind of decent execution you can kind of give yourself a fighting chance without so much hit-and-hope packed into a brief stretch.

Brent

Yes, I am not gonna be terribly sympathetic about 16 as it is a short par 5 and a VERY easy bogey at that.  You write of options, but #6 is imo a very limited option hole.  Downwind I am inclined to give it a go at reaching the green because I know the approach is difficult after a layup.  Into a headwind it is a no brainer to layup because I can't make the carry for the green.  Its still a good hole either way, but downwind is when it shines.  I liked 17 because it is a head scratcher.  I am not quite sure how to play the hole and this is rare for me after seeing it some six times. 

Jamie

I lot of good maintenance is knowing how much water to use to help control the rough before it is rough.  It is my opinion is even on links and in these times, too much water is applied.  Playing Burnham's 9 holer has convinced me of this as that doesn't get water and it is consistently more linksy than the big course.  Believe me, Burnham is not an isolated case.  I get around quite a bit and see that water is still a problem which causes some of the rough problem. 

Ciao   

[Brent Hutto]

I'm feeling a mite clueless right now but I never thought of the sixteenth as a Par 5. Into the wind in 2006 it was just another unreachable-in-two hole and downwind this time it would have seemed reachable had I not hit my tee shot short and into trouble both times. Is really is a pretty standard two-shotter length from the yellow tees, isn't it?

My problem was that after punching out of trouble with my second shot (this year's rounds) or just plain old having to lay up (into the wind last time) I kept ending up with an awkward lie and no idea of what to do with my next shot. Of course if I didn't even realize I was supposed to be conceptualizing it as a Par 5 then it's obvious what I really need is a better mental map of the hole's geometry and proportions.

Which brings up another point. The stretch of 15-16-17 does tend to confound itself in my mind, resulting in an unclear mental picture. Obviously what is called for is another half-dozen or so times around the course to let everything settle and clarify in my head...how does the third week of June next year sound? 

[Jamie Barber]

Sean

I take your point but the rough at Prince's is all natural. In 5 years I've never seen any of the fairway sprinklers in action. It's actually pretty amazing because the rough was negligible all through the winter and early spring. But a bit of rain and sunshine and it goes mad, usually until later into the summer when it burns off.

[Sean_A]

Sean

I take your point but the rough at Prince's is all natural. In 5 years I've never seen any of the fairway sprinklers in action. It's actually pretty amazing because the rough was negligible all through the winter and early spring. But a bit of rain and sunshine and it goes mad, usually until later into the summer when it burns off.

Jamie

Do you ever see water turned on at a links?  If I have it is less times than I can count on one hand.  They water alright, you can bet your bottom dollar on it.  I have a funny story about watering.  A bunch of us were to no good at TOC many years ago and decided to play golf sometime after midnight - as many visitors do.  We played a few shots down 17 and 18 in our suits when the Old Bill turns up.  I chucked my sticks under a car and the others were busted.  The youngest of the lot is trying to take responsibility for our adolescent behaviour, despite the situation being under control, when suddenly a sprinkler opens up and drenches the poor lad.  To make sure and get the last word in, one of the cops looks under the car and says to me, "I expect Sir will need these in the morning" and it wasn't a question. 

Ciao

[Mark Chaplin]

Sean - you should have been "suitably advised as to your future conduct".

Brent - the second shot on 16 should end up in the only decent flat area on the entire course!! It is about 470-480 off the yellows but remember it usually plays into a breeze from one o'clock. Even with a one club wind hitting the green in to becomes tough.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Sean

I take your point but the rough at Prince's is all natural. In 5 years I've never seen any of the fairway sprinklers in action. It's actually pretty amazing because the rough was negligible all through the winter and early spring. But a bit of rain and sunshine and it goes mad, usually until later into the summer when it burns off.

Jamie

Do you ever see water turned on at a links?  If I have it is less times than I can count on one hand.  They water alright, you can bet your bottom dollar on it.  I have a funny story about watering.  A bunch of us were to no good at TOC many years ago and decided to play golf sometime after midnight - as many visitors do.  We played a few shots down 17 and 18 in our suits when the Old Bill turns up.  I chucked my sticks under a car and the others were busted.  The youngest of the lot is trying to take responsibility for our adolescent behaviour, despite the situation being under control, when suddenly a sprinkler opens up and drenches the poor lad.  To make sure and get the last word in, one of the cops looks under the car and says to me, "I expect Sir will need these in the morning" and it wasn't a question. 

Ciao

Sean next time we meet I shall be pressing for names!


Great to see you again Brent and to see you happily back home. 

It’s interesting that you are questioning the ‘logic’ of two holes in what is the most famous stretch at Deal – the final four.  Logically you may have a point but hey, it’s part of what makes Deal great.


Man, you can putt.  When you’re hitting dead centre of the cup you can ram them home. I hate playing guys who can putt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   

[Brent Hutto]

It was an interesting comparison of a guy who was a driving it solidly but missing a few putts versus just the opposite. If I could have hit a couple fairways or you had made a couple putts early on it might have been a rout in one direction or the other.