Sunningdale, Colts changes to Park's course.

[Paul_Turner]

Tony

Fantastic thread.  I think pretty much all the features were redone by Colt; I agree that those diagonal traps on 14th Old are very much his style, just look at the photo of the 9th of the New (NLE) that Neil posted for an obvious similarity.   Agree that we can pin down that  1,4,5,6,7,8,11,12,13,15,17, and 18  all had new (moved) or modified greens from the various accounts mostly by Darwin. But the general progression of the holes is as Park had it.

"Colt's Po"...I wonder how long it lasted?  Way before George Thomas at Riviera

Neil

Cool, I've been searching for good quality versions of those old pics of Sunn New for ages.  They were published in the UK mags but not nearly as clear as those.  

All the photos are from the New.  The 7th, 8th, 9th are all from the original New course and NLE...they were spectacular but hilly and the members complained.   The 7th and 8th climbed up the hill starting from close to the current 9th fairway, the 8th green being located up high near the 10th tee on the Old.  

The 9th then reversed direction, parallel to the 10th Old.  The 10th New (photo shown) played to the same green but at a different angle (90 degree rotated).

[Paul_Turner]

PS Tony  Colt redesigned Stoneham too, hope you might uncover what it involved.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Two reasons for this uprdate, one to remind myslef how important Tom Mac has been in the develoment and contribution to this site, but also to marvel at the size of the greens in Darwin's photographs.

Having just returned from playing at Sunningdale it is also remarkable at how recognisable the holes are even today.

[Thomas Dai]

Ouimet putting on the 10th in 1917

Ouimet again in 1917

First photo - of Ouimet putting on the 10th in 1917 - in this photo there are no 'stripes' on the green - would the green have been cut with a scythe at this time? If so, when did the change to roller mowing commence? The green is certainly huge.

Second photo - Ouimet again in 1917 - in this photo the tall thin gentleman in the far right of the photo looks very much like James Braid. Is it?

Great thread and splendid research.

All the best

[Thomas Dai]

I forgot to mention it in my previous comment, but it came as quite a surprise to see photographs of Francis Ouimet, and obviously others, competing in a significant golf competition in England during WWI-1917. This is not meant as a criticism, for I believe FO was in the US forces later in WWI but still, to travel over U-boat patrolled seas and then play golf in a country where supplies of food and materials were limited does seem quite, well um, surprising IMO.
All the best

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

This green looks incredibly large; or am I being fooled my the mowing lines? The present day green looks about a third of the size.

[Adam Lawrence]

Donal - that photo is of the original seventh on the New course, which is one of the lost Colt holes. The foreground is the fairway - the green is at top right. Sunningdale greenkeeper Murray Long and his team have reopened the corridors of these holes in the last few years, and much of the shaping survives - I wrote about it in the magazine a year or two ago.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Donal - that photo is of the original seventh on the New course, which is one of the lost Colt holes. The foreground is the fairway - the green is at top right. Sunningdale greenkeeper Murray Long and his team have reopened the corridors of these holes in the last few years, and much of the shaping survives - I wrote about it in the magazine a year or two ago.

Looks like a cracking hole...

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Donal - that photo is of the original seventh on the New course, which is one of the lost Colt holes. The foreground is the fairway - the green is at top right. Sunningdale greenkeeper Murray Long and his team have reopened the corridors of these holes in the last few years, and much of the shaping survives - I wrote about it in the magazine a year or two ago.

Adam,

Thanks for the clarification. I had an inkling that it couldn't be the green, but was throw off by the caption of the photo. I was going to ask about the lost holes; any update on the progress. I had a look at the aerial just the other day, but it's still quite rough looking.

[Adam Lawrence]

This is what the tenth hole (which played to the current green, but from high on the ridge to the left of today's tee) looks from the original tee now the trees have been removed.

https://twitter.com/mlsunningdalegc/status/279243300240769026/photo/1

Other than that I am not sure of any progress. The other holes only exist as corridors; I'm not sure there's any likelihood of them being put back.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Adam,
I saw this clearing and asked the cub Captain about it at lunch time.
He informed me of what you said above, so I went back out there to take a look.
What a thrilling tee shot that would be , but apparently there is no intent to put a tee back up there ?

[Adam Lawrence]

I don't think you could play the tenth from up there as part of the existing routing, it would be a horrific climb. But the old teepad still exists - there was even still some fescue on it when I went round with Murray. He's played the hole from up there, not sure who else has.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

It would be a cool thing to do every now and then...I would make the climb!!!
What a terrific place though, great clubhouse wonderfully friendly members, I spent about an hour talking to ex Walker Cupper Ian Caldwell about the course amongst other things, a real thrill.
The New Course blew me away, I cannot wait to go back.

[Niall C]

With reference to the thread on Dr MacKenzies possible involvement in the Eden course and the suggestion that the greens are more MacKenzie than Colt, I think this is the thread I referenced as having photos of Colts work at Sunningdale. Unfortunately the photos are no longer available to see 


Perhaps one of the original posters might still have some photos ?


Niall

[Sean_A]

Niall

A look at Sunningdale Old's very creative 12th green Colt built. The green looks nothing like this now.  Other Colt greens around London have been dumbed down.  Suffice it to say, I don't buy for a minute that Colt couldn't or wouldn't have designed the greens at The Eden. 


How the green looks today.


Ciao