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Josh Smith

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Re: Golf in San Francisco: USA Final Frontier Trip (The Cal Club)
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2010, 12:26:28 AM »
Kevin P.

       Here is a photo of one of the cool "views out from the clubhouse" that you speak of.  I think MacKenzie notched up the ornate factor directly around the clubhouse.  This view, along with 7 bunkers around 18 green, and 2 very short carry bunkers each at 10 and 1.  Twelve is one of the coolest bunkered par threes I have seen. 
       Great to meet you towards the end of your bucket list trip.

Josh

Josh Smith

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Re: Golf in San Francisco: USA Final Frontier Trip (The Cal Club)
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2010, 12:38:00 AM »
Hole Twelve Backwards 18 in the distance  (notice the tees and the slot you play through b/t 18 and 11 green, flag and bunker in view)


Hole Eleven


Hole Seven


Josh

Tiger_Bernhardt

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Re: Golf in San Francisco: USA Final Frontier Trip (The Cal Club)
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2010, 12:42:22 AM »
Thanks for the wonderful pics of the Cal Club. I too love the course and commend the super for his maintenance program. The clubhouse is far too large for the size of Membership but that is a small point. It is a course of note and deserves to be discussed in the elite courses discussion. However it is far from the best in Sf but probably should be somewhere between 8 and 12 in California.

Kevin Pallier

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Re: Golf in San Francisco: USA Final Frontier Trip (The Cal Club)
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2010, 01:03:40 AM »
KP - the traditions of the game outweigh the likes of Cypress or sandhills or PV or Long Island - impressive?
Does it win by much - maybe 1 up? :)

Brett

Whilst there are courses better than TOC - few can match its X factors such as setting, history and imagination required to play it. I always have fun there - as I do at North Berwick. I love Links golf.

KP,

Have you cropped those pics, or do you have a setting on your camera that takes extra-wide pics? They look great that shape, really suits golf hole pics, I reckon.

Scott

I bought a new camera before I left - a Panasonic Lumix and are still getting used to it. I used a 16x9 frame on a lot of shots - thanks to John Mayhughs advice  8) I think they take much better golf shots than 4x3




Kevin Pallier

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Re: Golf in San Francisco: USA Final Frontier Trip (The Cal Club)
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2010, 01:16:45 AM »
I couldn't agree more with those that say Cal Club now sits atop the list of all the great courses in SF....it's that good.

Last summer, I played SFGC, Olympic Lake, and Cal Club on consecutive days and the one that I still daydream about is Cal Club.Jim

Jim

I'm in the middle of my write-up of SFGC and will post it here shortly then follow it with The Olympic Club. They are all very good courses - each with their own special characteristics.

Josh

It was good meeting up with you too - I could think of worse places and environments to work than yours.  ;)

Great pics by the way. As Jim said - it's a magical place.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2010, 08:00:53 AM by Kevin Pallier »

John Blain

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Re: Golf in San Francisco: USA Final Frontier Trip (The Cal Club)
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2010, 03:25:22 PM »
Thanks for the wonderful pics of the Cal Club. I too love the course and commend the super for his maintenance program. The clubhouse is far too large for the size of Membership but that is a small point. It is a course of note and deserves to be discussed in the elite courses discussion. However it is far from the best in Sf but probably should be somewhere between 8 and 12 in California.

FAR from the best?  Like how far? I've played virtually all the ones worth playing in SF and I can't think of too many any better.....

-John

Chuck Brown

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Re: Golf in San Francisco: USA Final Frontier Trip (The Cal Club)
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2010, 04:08:31 PM »
I just looked at the Google Maps satellite image of The Cal Club.  I did not see a date, but the satellite image is old enough that is shows the course in complete 100% construction mode.  I don't think there was a blade of grass on the property, and on full magnification, you can see tanker trucks cruising the course and spraying water to keep down the dust.  It is, simply, a construction site with bunkers and mature trees.

It is absolutely remarkable what a renovation this was.

Kevin Pallier

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Re: Golf in San Francisco: USA Final Frontier Trip (The Cal Club)
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2010, 05:36:27 PM »
Kevin,

I know its a tough question but not many have had your range of experiences.  Also I have an idea of what you like which adds great value , for me, to your opinion.
Thanks very much for your reply.  Got start thinking about the next question. ;D
By the way do think NSW is a tough walk.  Just a thought re another thread, no hijack intended.


Ash

The Q comes right back to you - your week anywhere in the world ?

I dont think NSW is a tough walk - yes there are hilly sections ie: climb to 3rd green / that over the fairway at 8 and up 14 / 15 but there is a lot of relatively flat / downhill sections as well. The hardest walks are from off the green to the next tee which I think the designers should be applauded ie: 8th to 9th / 16th to 17th / 18th to 19th  ;D


Ash Towe

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Re: Golf in San Francisco: USA Final Frontier Trip (The Cal Club)
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2010, 06:14:40 PM »
Kevin,

My week anywhere in the world- Provided I have access would be Long Island or secondly Ireland.  The reason being I have not been to either or not played where I would have liked to.

On a repeat trip, St Andrews area plus Muirfield.
In the US, any of Bandon, Monterey and Colorado/Nebraska.

I cannot do one answer as it is splitting hairs, they all have elements of greatness.

NSW is not a tough walk in my opinion and I would really like to check out SFGC again to see if that was hard. ;D

Kevin Pallier

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Re: Golf in San Francisco: USA Final Frontier Trip (The Cal Club)
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2010, 06:42:42 PM »
Kevin,

My week anywhere in the world......
I cannot do one answer as it is splitting hairs, they all have elements of greatness.

NSW is not a tough walk in my opinion and I would really like to check out SFGC again to see if that was hard. ;D

Ash

For year round quality it's tough to go past the Sandbelt as well  ;)

SFGC - is only tough on the F9....the B9 is a breeze

Ash Towe

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Re: Golf in San Francisco: USA Final Frontier Trip (The Cal Club)
« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2010, 07:12:19 PM »
Kevin,

52 weeks of the year The Sandbelt offers the best conditions, no doubt.

Kevin_Reilly

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Re: Golf in San Francisco: USA Final Frontier Trip (The Cal Club)
« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2010, 07:14:27 PM »
Kevin...SFGC front nine a tough walk?

1 - flat then down
2 - down then up
3 - relatively flat
4 - same
5 - same, then a pleasant stroll over to
6 - same
7 - down
8 - up, but a short hole
9 - flat to down slightly
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Kevin Pallier

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Re: Golf in San Francisco: USA Final Frontier Trip (The Cal Club)
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2010, 07:32:09 PM »
Kevin

Well it was for me on Day13 of my trip with heavy dew first up and I had Olympic Club in the afternoon.  ;)

Besides - I'm not as fit as you.

JLahrman

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Re: Golf in San Francisco: USA Final Frontier Trip (The Cal Club)
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2010, 08:05:14 PM »
I just looked at the Google Maps satellite image of The Cal Club.  I did not see a date, but the satellite image is old enough that is shows the course in complete 100% construction mode.  I don't think there was a blade of grass on the property, and on full magnification, you can see tanker trucks cruising the course and spraying water to keep down the dust.  It is, simply, a construction site with bunkers and mature trees.

It is absolutely remarkable what a renovation this was.

I've noticed this as well...meanwhile, the Google Earth images of the Bay Bridge between SF and Oakland 15 miles away cannot be more than a year old (easy to date because of the new span being built between Yerba Buena Island and the East Bay).  It looks to be shortly before traffic was shifted to the infamous temporary S-curve last Labor Day.  Not sure how often the images get updated, but would be nice to see the current version of the Cal Club!

Correction...I see a date in the bottom left.  The Cal Club images are listed as being from July 2007, the Bay Bridge images are from August 2009.

TX Golf

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Re: Golf in San Francisco: USA Final Frontier Trip (The Cal Club)
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2010, 10:45:28 PM »
Hey Guys,

Instead of using google earth, try using maps.live.com.

If you zoom in using the bird's eye view, you can see the course after recently being seeded. The more you mess around with it the more periods in time you will see. Not sure why but that is how it is.

Robert

Kevin Pallier

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Re: Golf in San Francisco: USA Final Frontier Trip (SFGC update)
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2010, 07:56:15 AM »
The San Francisco Golf Club (SFGC) is another elite club in “The Bay” area. Intensely private this is a Tillinghast course that I was longing to see. To give an idea of the character at SFGC one only needs to step into the locker rooms – they are from a bygone era and it seems from what I’m led to believe SFGC is a club built on strong traditions and some amazing history.

Virtually across the road from The Olympic club it is spread over undulating terrain – particularly on the F9. The routing is virtually on two sides of the property the B9 on the East and the F9 on the Western side both with both a different character and feel in a sense. SFGC is surrounded by suburbia but you get a feel of spaciousness out on the course. The eastern boundary of the property adjoins Serra Blvd and is quite noisy - those who have played at Walton Heath will understand the din that exists there.

There is a significant tilt in the property from East to West – and as most holes run in that general direction (& vice versa) I wonder what it’s like to play early or late in the day with the movement of the sun ?

Holes I noted: Apologies in advance re: the quality of my photos – they were taken very early in the morning save for a couple of fellow GCAer pics

2nd = (P4: 420yds) is dogleg left that comes back towards the clubhouse. The hole plays down into a natural valley that then rises again to the green. The terrain changes are amazing as evident by these great pics from fellow GCAer Jed Peters (a few years ago) and test the golfer out early.

Tee shot (per JP)


Approach (per JP)


4th = (P3: 220yds) a long flat P3 surrounded by bunkers but sets up for a fade into the green.


   
7th = (P3: 190yds) “The Duel” hole is sharply downhill and this hole is steeped in history. It’s at a very quiet end of the property and I love how the natural terrain extends to a ridge running through the middle of the green.

The view up to the 8th in the background shows the significant changes in terrain one can experience on the F9. I also noticed the degree of tree clearing that has occurred over time. In the latest World Atlas of Golf there is a pic where the 7th it is densely surrounded by trees but there is less so now and the bunkering has certainly been redone.



9th = (P5: 582yds) is interesting in how the courses three P5’s are all centred around the clubhouse. This one returns to a green that is best approached from the right hand side with the Grand old clubhouse providing a great backdrop.



10th = (P4: 410yds) parallel to the 9th this is a hole that has bunkers and trees protecting the approach to the green.



11th = (P3: 161yds) is an inviting P3 whereby it’s better to be long than short. It plays in roughly the same direction as the 4th.



12th = (P4: 408yds) is an interesting hole whereby the green is situated behind two large fronting mounds both with bunkers in them. There is a little bit of room between them and the green though so it is not as hemmed in as it looks. I think this hole would polarise golfers who play it.



13th = (P3: 134yds) is a terrific short hole across a flat section of the property. It reminded me of the old 14th at Royal Qld (traffic noise and all) but the setting is certainly much nicer at SFGC



15th = (P4: 420yds) uphill this hole is well protected by bunkers on the drive that are shared with the 14th. The green is quite narrow and has some deceptive bunkers short as well.



18th = (P5: 520 yds) the final P5 returns to the clubhouse with bunkers being a constant threat on all approaches. The green is quite narrow but it is lovely finishing in front of the old clubhouse



The highlight for mine at SFGC was the wonderful feeling of openness one has on such a compact site. The trees frame the holes more so than being potential obstacles to overcome and you can view so many other holes as you move around the layout. The scale of the place needs to be seen to be believed.

The routing flows amazingly well and whilst some of the holes are parallel and quite close to one another there is a general feeling of uniqueness and spaciousness as you move around the layout.

Some of the bunkering is quite bold and whilst not as deep as those that I experienced at another Tillinghast layout: Bethpage (Black) they were an ever present threat. I have read that Billy Bell may have been involved with the bunkering at some stage as well ?

The set of P3’s were a big highlight as was the lack of trees clogging up the fairways. Similar in style to The Cal Club – the trees exist more so “in view” as opposed to “in play”.

I love the wonderful old world charm about the classic that is SFGC.

David_Tepper

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Re: Golf in San Francisco: USA Final Frontier Trip (SFGC update)
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2010, 09:20:59 AM »
Kevin -

SFGC is a very, very special place. I would not necessarily consider it a "compact site," as almost all the holes have good separation from each other. I can't think of one hole where you really have to worry about a golf ball in play from another hole landing on your fairway.

Other than that, I agree with everything you have said.

DT 

Ash Towe

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Re: Golf in San Francisco: USA Final Frontier Trip (SFGC update)
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2010, 02:04:24 PM »
Kevin,

Great pics and comments of a truely special place.  I remember walking around to the front of the clubhouse for the first time and seeing the course in front of me, just an amazing vista.

The sense of isolation on the front nine, considering its location is exceptional.

One of my favourite places to play anywhere.

Kevin Pallier

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Re: Golf in San Francisco: USA Final Frontier Trip (SFGC update)
« Reply #43 on: March 25, 2010, 12:29:47 AM »
David

What I meant by "compact site" is that from map aerials the course routing is pretty much up against all of the property boundaries.

The schools + church's to the north / the Blvd's to the East and West + houses to the South.

Jordan Wall

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Re: Golf in San Francisco: USA Final Frontier Trip (SFGC update)
« Reply #44 on: March 25, 2010, 06:55:25 AM »
Kevin,

Thank you for these threads that continue to amaze me.

You obviously had quite a trip, so thanks for sharing.

As far as SFGC goes, I've been but never played, and all I can say is that the bunkering is amazing.  It's in such a busy section of San Fran, but its so quiet and peaceful inside the property, and that to me is truly amazing.

Wonderful pictures, thanks again.

Cheers,
Jordan

Phil_the_Author

Re: Golf in San Francisco: USA Final Frontier Trip (SFGC update)
« Reply #45 on: March 25, 2010, 07:53:08 AM »
AS one who is making his first trip there in two weeks I am beyond thrilled at the thought of seeing it.

Niall Hay

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Re: Golf in San Francisco: USA Final Frontier Trip (SFGC update)
« Reply #46 on: March 25, 2010, 10:41:29 AM »
Kevin, awesome pics. SFGC is incredible.....keep the updates coming....

Kevin Pallier

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Re: Golf in San Francisco: USA Final Frontier Trip (Olympic Club update)
« Reply #47 on: March 26, 2010, 01:11:30 AM »
The Olympic Club (OC) is another elite club in San Francisco and rounds out the trio of great courses that I saw in “The Bay” region. This course has hosted numerous Major golf tournaments including a soon to become 5th US Open (2012) and 3 US Amateurs. It has a very interesting routing as it primarily moves across some significant ridges and as such - one rarely gets a completely flat lie.

A club or two across from SFGC and only a few shots from Harding Park and Lake Merced it’s part of a collection of course in close proximity to one another. The vistas overlooking the course are amazing.

View of SF from the 2nd:


View of course from the 3rd:


I may be wrong but I can’t recall a single “water or lateral” hazard in play at any of the trio of courses I’ve viewed on this thread ? This is a trait shared by some of the best courses on the Sandbelt and a wonderful feature to espouse IMO.

The greens seemed quite small targets and have all been recently redone I’m led to believe. They all putted quick and true and it will be interesting to see how they are set-up for the US Open in a few years time.

Holes I noted:

1st = (P5: 533yds) amazingly all three Bay courses I have seen start with a P5 ? I quite like this hole as it moves slowly to the right and downhill to the green. Certainly reachable in two by the longer hitters I like how the hole has two fairway bunkers placed deceptively short of the green.



3rd = (P3: 223yds) is a lovely downhill P3 that is protected by four bunkers short and one flanking bunker. The entrance to the green is pinched and it is also falls away towards the back corners. Note the similar terrain feel to #1



4th = (P4: 438yds) has some of the few fairway bunkers on the course though they are short of the green. This hole swings to the left to an unbunkered green that is deceptively quick.



5th = (P4: 457yds) swings to the right and certainly sets up for one that can fade the ball of the tee. I love how the famous Bay fog quickly formed then dissipated during my round.



8th = (P3: 175yds) an uphill P3 and a relatively new hole that has a narrow entrance to a tilted green that is surrounded by bunkers save for back left.


   
10th = (P4: 422yds) is a lovely downhill P4 that swings around the right and a greensite that also has a very narrow entrance. Beside it is – the halfway house where one can taste one of THE BEST burgers one can find in America.



16th = (P5: 607yds) is my favourite P5 on the course and I love how it slowly bends around to the left inviting the golfer to take a more aggressive - but well protected - left hand line. The greensite has a massive bunker on the right that captures I’m sure many an approach.



18th = (P4: 347yds) is one of the better short finishing holes I’ve seen. Accuracy is much more important than length on this closer. The green also has a significant back to front slope that will test the nerves of anyone right to the last putt.



The course is noted for having very few fairway hazards. That is offset by the narrow playing corridors that exist via the ever-present trees and long grass being a constant threat instead. I am led to believe some significant tree clearing has occurred in more recent times and I would hope for the members’ benefit that such clearing continue as unlike the Cal Club or SFGC – the OC’s playing corridors are very narrow in places. Personally - I think some of the enjoyment of playing the game is impeded by such a set-up but the OC does have a reputation of being a “hard” test of golf.

Whiting and Watson deserve credit for routing a course on what I would consider a rather difficult piece of land. Most of the course is on quite steep ridges and to go across them rather than up and down was a masterstroke. Rarely does a hole of length play in a direct line tee to green and unless you can shape a ball at will or hit it relatively straight you could find yourself in for a long day.

It was certainly the most challenging course I saw in The Bay region - the pressure on the tee shot and then that into the relatively small targets was relentless. That said - a playing partner who was striking the ball well was able to play the layout I think just a handful over par.

Overall, The OC is a difficult test of golf and one can appreciate that as such it will undoubtedly remain on the US Open rota.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 01:36:49 AM by Kevin Pallier »

Scott Warren

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Re: Golf in San Francisco: USA Final Frontier Trip (Olympic Club update)
« Reply #48 on: March 26, 2010, 02:44:10 AM »
KP,

O Lake seems to be one major course there isn't a whole heap of pics of on GCA. I'd love if you could post any others you have.

cheers,
Scott

Wayne Wiggins, Jr.

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Re: Golf in San Francisco: USA Final Frontier Trip (Olympic Club update)
« Reply #49 on: March 26, 2010, 01:08:40 PM »
Kevin -

Nice tour of the O Club... sun is shining here today and I'm headed out for my first round of the year on the course (pathetic, I know).  Couple things - all which have been discussed ad nauseum here before:

+ Hole 8.  IMO plays 1 club too long for everyday play.  And take out that back bunker... as the only one of its kind on the course that can be seen (there's on #2 but it's not visible until you realize you're actually in it), it doesn't fit with the other 17 green complexes.

+ Trees.  Like it or not, it's part of the tradition and aura of the Lake course.  I'm glad that many have been cleared out within the past half-dozen years, as the turf conditions have improved dramatically.

+ Fairways Widths.  There are a number of holes (e.g. 4, 5, 9, 18) where I think having more fairway for teeshots to land would actually create more trouble for those that are now just running through into the rough.  Those shots will run further out of play with really tough angles into the greens. 

+ Greens.  A friend of mine still talks about how small the targets are on the Lake (especially #17 and #18), and this is a year after he played it.  Again another traditional part of the course, and one that fits in with the cozy and compact feel of the Lake.

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