Derek:
I never used the word "world class" to describe the 18th there -- you did. Check out the scoring averages for all the par-5's the PGA Tiour plays and see where The Champ stands -- it's at the very top and it does so through dead flat land.
I never said that I find rudimentary and pedestiran design -- which proliferates in FL more than most locales is preferred or even desired. Please allow me the courtesy in using my own words for me -- not substitutes.
You make it sound as the 18th is so simple on what's required -- check the scoring averages out for the hole for this year and in year's past. If it was so simple how many birdies were made there. Pros don't like to lay back if they avoid it -- that's the real temptation when playing the hole because going for it (assuming no real wind is blowing) doesn't make for such a pro forma type situation.
The approach you are talking about needs to be really precise -- especially with a right pin placement. Did you happen to see the play last week on the hole and how so many pros were either dumbfounded or simply clueless on how to avoid bogey or more.
This is a hole that plays 552 yards and when all the numbers are added up there are no gimmicks but just the need for pinpoint play.
Of course, everything is so e-z from the comfort of one's living room chair. Just a statement on my part.
SL:
Try to realize this -- it's very tough for the preferred "compelling" designs that many rightly fawn over here on this site and elsewhere to then be able to tame or handle the world's best players. Please read Doak's last line on Shinnecock Hills in CG - for me, that element -- the wherewithal to have that kind of elasticity that he outlines is central to true greatness. They do in fact play a different game and while the bulk of people will be in awe of such places that are revered here -- the sad reality is that layouts rarely push the pedal for the top tier players. Much of the strategic implications can be routinely circumvented because of their skill range and the fact that they both carry the ball further and work the ball to their considerable advantage. So yes, the words "insufficient challenge" needs to be thrown into the discussion.
For many high single digit handicaps and those in the low doubt digit range the elements of such design ingredients that many rightly cherish will certainly factor into how they play the course. As the skill level ratchets up considerably those same design elements are rarely having the same impact.
You need to play The Champ because given the considerable limitations that so much of FL golf has -- dead flat land and often times the overdosage of H20, it can become a chore to create playable yet interesting golf. I never said The Champ at PGA National is world class -- I simply said the elements Nicklaus and his team included there during the upgrade have made a course that already had some qualities (having hosted a PGA and Ryder Cup) even better.
The final quartet is a solid mixture of different golf holes. If anyone ignorantly believes the 15th and 17th are the same type of golf holes -- then I'll be happy to buy them a compass because the varying wind conditions and how the two holes are layed out are very much different -- including the yardage requirements and green configurations.
SL, low scores were had at The Champ which shoots a hole in the bellief that the course was incapable in yielding some fine scores. Check out the 64 that Kim had and a number of other players produced -- over the 72-hole grind it was only CV who really proved to me that this young guy has some real potential to be a big time player for the years ahead.