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Paul OConnor

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Re: Golf Digest's Matt Ginella didn't like The Ocean Course
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2010, 12:49:53 PM »
"Standing in the middle of the 13th fairway with 150 yards into a green, flanked by bunkers and a wind blowing directly into the greenside body of water, I pulled 5-wood and tried to hit a modified stinger along the ground. I still rinsed it and made a 7."

Maybe this is why he's a country club 8.  I never played TOC, but looking at the aerial, this shot seems like a poor strategic decision.  He's probably standing there thinking like this.  "I'm 150 out, which is a 6 iron, and there is at least a three club wind, which would be a 3 iron, but I can't really hit a three iron, so I'll hit "a modified stinger along the ground" five wood.  And he does and hits a crappy high fade into the drink.  So, he drops, and can't be more than 80 yards from the green hitting four.  He hits a lousy chip and then three putts for seven.  How is this the fault of the course??

From 150 out with a howling wind in one's face, the last thing I would want to do is get the ball up high, like the ball flight a 5 wood is likely to produce.  A punch 2 iron, or even 3 wood is probably what I would have tried.  And for god sake's you can't go right.  Hit it in the bunker left if you have to.  That way when you chunk it out of the bunker and three putt, you only made a six. 

I'm sure our Scottish and Irish contributors face shots like this all day long.  How many are grabbing the five wood for "a modified stinger along the ground?" 

jonathan_becker

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Re: Golf Digest's Matt Ginella didn't like The Ocean Course
« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2010, 12:51:20 PM »
I love how Matty G. says

"The second hole is a par 5 that goes out, left and then right--going for it in 2, even with the longest of drives, is a round-wrecking proposition. Fact is, you have to have the accuracy of a tour player to hit the green in 4."

I've played a fair amount of Dye courses, and I feel that #2 is one of the best holes I've ever played.  You've gotta draw it off the tee, and then hit a high cut into the green (if your going for it in 2), and yes, trouble awaits.  It's an awesome hole design wise.

It's a reachable par 5, Matty, and you're at TOC!!  So either man up and take your lumps or go the hell home!!   >:( ;D

What a crybaby.  :'(


« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 10:10:50 PM by jonathan_becker »

Anthony_Nysse

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Re: Golf Digest's Matt Ginella didn't like The Ocean Course
« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2010, 12:57:47 PM »
Anthony,

I know you aren't a fan of HT, but do you seriously think it's better than TOC?  I'm just curious.

I've played every course listed in your last post and IMO holes 2-5 at the TOC are the best holes of the bunch.

I think general enjoyment of a course matters. TOC is just a beat down, each and everyday. Also, When I played there, there was such a difference between Pete's orginaly work and the renovation work-very unatural and man made-it didn't fit anything else and I was disappointed to see paspalum grass on the greens. Hard to get them fast and firm year round.

Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

jonathan_becker

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Re: Golf Digest's Matt Ginella didn't like The Ocean Course
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2010, 01:01:28 PM »
Anthony,

Fair enough.

I never saw the original course, but the last time I was there the paspalum was lightning fast and very firm.

I guess both of our different experiences are a prime example of liking and not liking a course.  That's golf!!

Garland Bayley

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Re: Golf Digest's Matt Ginella didn't like The Ocean Course
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2010, 01:05:56 PM »
Illegitimate review based on his golf game and not on the golf course.
Who cares if it is a par 80, if it gives you an interesting round.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 01:07:51 PM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Digest's Matt Ginella didn't like The Ocean Course
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2010, 01:06:20 PM »
Nowadays I've stopped caring to rank favorite courses played, mostly I guess because things change (thankfully) with new ones I get around to seeing.  But the top dog for me is still the brutal but glorious Ocean Course @ Kiawah.  I frigging loved it!  Kingsley is very close and with a couple more plays this summer, who knows.

And I was beaten down at both of them!

Mike Tanner

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Re: Golf Digest's Matt Ginella didn't like The Ocean Course
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2010, 01:12:09 PM »
Methinks Mr. Ginella needs a little Brie to go with his whine. It's a damn tough course and he played it in damn tough conditions. He says he doesn't like the course. I think he doesn't like how he handled the opportunity.

Life's too short to waste on bad golf courses or bad wine.

Tony Weiler

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Re: Golf Digest's Matt Ginella didn't like The Ocean Course
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2010, 02:11:13 PM »
Sounds like he had a bad round, but he does put TOC (Isn't that St. Andrews??) in his top 25.  Speaking of that (his top 25), and someone saying they didn't like it, I actually did.  He does a good describing his top 25 and why he likes them and not.  Maybe not what we'd agree with but I did enjoy reading about it.

Jerry Kluger

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Re: Golf Digest's Matt Ginella didn't like The Ocean Course
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2010, 02:31:33 PM »
The Ocean Course should be nicknamed "ego-buster." I have played it a number of times and it is a marvelous course but put your ego aside when deciding what tees are best for you.  The course has width but it also has wind and it can blow so hard that no matter how wide it is you will get into trouble. You can recover from much of the trouble but the recovery can be extremely challenging but also extremely rewarding. 

Personally, I think the writer is just creating a story instead of fairly reporting the facts. He starts out by blasting the weather conditions - he should have known that going in.  He blasts the opening holes as too tough but he fails to point out the strengths of the other holes. He criticizes the cost to play the course as a walk-up and waits to the end to point out that they have stay and play packages that make it much more reasonable and which he took advantage of.

I have taken numerous family vacations to Kiawah and everyone I know who has been there with kids, including those who do not play golf, love the place.  Of course, if you want a boardwalk, rollercoaster and mini-golf you're going to the wrong place.

Tell Mr. Ginella that if he doesn't like the Ocean Course don't bother taking a trip to Bandon.

Brent Hutto

Re: Golf Digest's Matt Ginella didn't like The Ocean Course
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2010, 02:33:40 PM »
Yeah, I'll bet if he hopped on a planed, traveled to the Kingdom of Fife and played that other "T.O.C." in 30mph winds on a cold February day he might have hated it just as much.

Brian Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Digest's Matt Ginella didn't like The Ocean Course
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2010, 02:40:48 PM »
"Standing in the middle of the 13th fairway with 150 yards into a green, flanked by bunkers and a wind blowing directly into the greenside body of water, I pulled 5-wood and tried to hit a modified stinger along the ground. I still rinsed it and made a 7."

Maybe this is why he's a country club 8.  I never played TOC, but looking at the aerial, this shot seems like a poor strategic decision.  He's probably standing there thinking like this.  "I'm 150 out, which is a 6 iron, and there is at least a three club wind, which would be a 3 iron, but I can't really hit a three iron, so I'll hit "a modified stinger along the ground" five wood.  And he does and hits a crappy high fade into the drink.  So, he drops, and can't be more than 80 yards from the green hitting four.  He hits a lousy chip and then three putts for seven.  How is this the fault of the course??

From 150 out with a howling wind in one's face, the last thing I would want to do is get the ball up high, like the ball flight a 5 wood is likely to produce.  A punch 2 iron, or even 3 wood is probably what I would have tried.  And for god sake's you can't go right.  Hit it in the bunker left if you have to.  That way when you chunk it out of the bunker and three putt, you only made a six. 

I'm sure our Scottish and Irish contributors face shots like this all day long.  How many are grabbing the five wood for "a modified stinger along the ground?" 


Paul:

I think you hit the nail square on the head.  Great post.  The bigger question is why he was even carrying a 5-wood in that wind.

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Digest's Matt Ginella didn't like The Ocean Course
« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2010, 02:43:51 PM »
I played there in early December the temp was about 45*, wind blowing about 20 and thought it was a very fair test.

In fact it was "softer: than I expected.
After talking at length later with the guys in the shop, I understand the softening has taken place little by little, leaving behind what I see as a very playable tough golf course.
We played the course at about 7200 with some extra jumps to back tees on the back nine....numbers 11-14 just have to be played from the tips for pure torture value...The greens were super even after 3 inches of rain in the previous 48 hours......
Mr Ginella..take up tennis, then all thecourts are similar!

Mike Demetriou

Re: Golf Digest's Matt Ginella didn't like The Ocean Course
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2010, 03:08:37 PM »
I usually enjoy "Matty G's" writing, but this is just simply wrong. I'm a broken record on The Ocean Course, I've posted about it many times before, but I will re-state that the 2nd and 3rd holes are simply outstanding. What a gaffe, to single out these holes because you didn't play them well.  I have a hard time thinking of a favorite list of courses to play, without coming back to The Ocean Course for a prominent spot on that list.

And by the way, I've played it bright and early, late in the day, windy, dry, hot, humid (had a Ken Venturi like experience there, minus the glory) and hung-over. It is a beast of a course, but I am thrilled to walk that track each and every time.

Headed back in early August with my wife. Need three more players. Matty G will not be one of them.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 03:32:15 PM by Mike Demetriou »

Jaeger Kovich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Digest's Matt Ginella didn't like The Ocean Course
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2010, 03:13:49 PM »
I played Ocean 4-5 times in november, and thought it was incredible. The thing that makes the course incredible is that it has limitless possibilities in its set up, and just the way you can play it. You can kill yourself and go back a set of tees, even playing it from a consistent tee box with changing winds, angles of approach and club selection, makes it a different experience every time. Every lie in the variety of bunkers, every different pitch, chip or putt from off the green provides golfers with decision that can lead to par or double bogie, which for me is one of the most fun things about golf, especially on a great golf course.

I do think Mr. Ginella did get the comparison to BPB correct. There is clearly a relationship between the huge scale of the golf courses, the difficulty and strategy/placement of the hazards. And the walk isn't that much easier, walking through the sand can be difficult for those who dont walk often.

My favorite thing about the article, is he didn't even get the food in the clubhouse right! You are sitting a drivers length from the freakin ocean and he orders beef!! and dont get me i love bloody mary's but when you are in SC, you order the Firefly sweet-tea vodka!

Mark Woodger

Re: Golf Digest's Matt Ginella didn't like The Ocean Course
« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2010, 03:27:14 PM »
i love the place. i think the course is fantastic and the are tees for every level of golfer.

As for the review it is based on his game that day rather than the course itself. As others have stated if the wind is up at the seaside the scores often follow suit.

Mike V - any chance of a GCA member discount?  ;D




jeffwarne

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Re: Golf Digest's Matt Ginella didn't like The Ocean Course
« Reply #40 on: March 04, 2010, 09:42:37 PM »
There is quote in the article that states that TOC is the most famouse Pete Dye designed course and I'd have to say it's not even close. TPC takes the cake and I think that is just ahead of Harbour Town. Whistling Straits and PGA West are a solid 3 and 4.
  I wasn't blown away with TOC-it was okay, but I would even take Harbour Town over it.

Anthony,
We finally agree on something. ;D
I'd take Long Cove over all three but you and I are biased. ;)
Pretty place, I've played there (TOC) three times but just didn't enjoy it that much.
My tastes in Charleston area run more to Yeamans and CC of Charleston (where we went straight to #1 off 18 green)
Might say more about me though ??? ;D
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 09:58:44 PM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Digest's Matt Ginella didn't like The Ocean Course
« Reply #41 on: March 04, 2010, 09:50:54 PM »
Jeff,
  You are correct. Mr. Dye only built 1 Long Cove-its not like anyof his other designs and thats why they have 600 members and 40,000 rounds. I'm a huge fame of CCofC, especially since the renovation
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Digest's Matt Ginella didn't like The Ocean Course
« Reply #42 on: March 04, 2010, 10:37:06 PM »
Glad I thoroughly looked at this thread because it seems the key to a great day on TOC is choosing the correct tees for your skill level. I will be there in early April for the 1st time and am thrilled to see that the majority of posters love the course and the shot values. It is all too often that you hear stories of 25 handicappers having a rotten day on a great course because they played it from 7100 yards. Machismo is a pervasive aspect of golf that will forever piss off guys waiting on the tee and break partner`s hearts.

jonathan_becker

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Re: Golf Digest's Matt Ginella didn't like The Ocean Course
« Reply #43 on: March 04, 2010, 10:42:46 PM »
Tim,

If a 25 hdcp played from 7100 yds, there's a decent chance he'd never make it out of there alive.   ;)

Richard Hetzel

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Re: Golf Digest's Matt Ginella didn't like The Ocean Course
« Reply #44 on: March 04, 2010, 10:45:59 PM »
These types of stories just make me want to play TOC, and sooner rather than later. Me, my 15 handicap, the elements and a tough course. Sounds like a great day to me!
Best Played So Far This Season:
Crystal Downs CC (MI), The Bridge (NY), Canterbury GC (OH), Lakota Links (CO), Montauk Downs (NY), Sedge Valley (WI)

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Digest's Matt Ginella didn't like The Ocean Course
« Reply #45 on: March 04, 2010, 10:46:31 PM »
Jonathan-For $300 plus you want to live to tell about it.

jonathan_becker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Digest's Matt Ginella didn't like The Ocean Course
« Reply #46 on: March 04, 2010, 10:57:01 PM »
Tim,

Enjoy your round in April.  The challenge is tons of fun.

I know it's windy at lots of golf courses, but you'll be amazed at how far and how short you'll hit the ball depending on the wind direction....and there's always a good chance it's gonna be howling!

Ryan Admussen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Digest's Matt Ginella didn't like The Ocean Course
« Reply #47 on: March 04, 2010, 11:05:04 PM »
Have my round booked for April.10, looking forward to the punishment!!

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Digest's Matt Ginella didn't like The Ocean Course
« Reply #48 on: March 04, 2010, 11:06:51 PM »
Jonathan-Loved your post # 26. Thanks for the encouragement. Hoping to mostly ride the wind but I`m sure that won`t be the case.

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