News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Jay Flemma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Kyle Phillips - in America and beyond
« on: March 01, 2010, 04:08:41 PM »
I had a nice lunch with Kyle (and others) where he talked about his new design at Verdura, but also about his thoughts about architecture.  I'll be writing about that another time, but I wanted to ask if anyone played any of his work, what they thought about it?  has anyone played his course Nevada?  How about Verdura in Sicily?

What doo you think are his general tenets of design?
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kyle Phillips - in America and beyond
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2010, 04:17:25 PM »
I'd love to hear more about Verdura, I have a long weekend later this month but we're on a budget and I've been dreaming of Sicily.

http://www.verduraresort.com/galleries/golf/

Pehaps you could pass on Aidan's card as those pictures don't inspire me.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2010, 04:58:14 PM by Tony_Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kyle Phillips - in America and beyond
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2010, 04:20:34 PM »
I'm going to Verdura in a couple of weeks.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Jay Flemma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kyle Phillips - in America and beyond
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2010, 04:33:06 PM »
cool.  please report back!
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kyle Phillips - in America and beyond
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2010, 04:35:48 PM »
Jay, his work at CAGC is tremendous..he did exactly what a restoration (which included some brand new holes too)  is supposed to:  he made a good course very good

it's also a visually stunning look with beautiful bunkering, pockets of trees..

a course I could play a lot!
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kyle Phillips - in America and beyond
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2010, 04:56:51 PM »
I'm going to Verdura in a couple of weeks.

...and I'm going to bloody Bournemouth.  Huntley is wrong, life isn't fair!

Try the Sicilian salad of oranges and onions!   Try it, in the sun it’s wonderful....and there’s this thing that looks like a hot scotch egg, inside its rice around a golden yolk. 

Do you have a caddy Adam?
 ;)
Let's make GCA grate again!

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kyle Phillips - in America and beyond
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2010, 05:38:31 PM »
Jay

I obviously hadn't seen the Cal Club prior to his work but what he laid out there is pretty impressive.

I've seen Kingsbarns but by all reports moved a hell of a lot of dirt to make it. That said - it has some very good holes.

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kyle Phillips - in America and beyond
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2010, 06:01:34 PM »
Wow, this resort sure is expensive... I mean Sicily isn't exactly the hotbed of tourism in Italy. Hope they do well ...

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kyle Phillips - in America and beyond
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2010, 06:06:00 PM »
Tony,

You must have read me wrong, Mother said "Bobby, life is unfair, get used to it." I was eight years old. She died a week later.

Bob

Steve Okula

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kyle Phillips - in America and beyond
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2010, 12:59:56 AM »
Kingsbarns is nothing short of brilliant, and starting with a flat field no one could create a great course without moving a lot of dirt. Anyway, it's not like moving dirt breaks one of the Ten Commandments.

It's been years since I've seen them, so I don't remeber much detail, but work Kyle did under the R.T. Jones Jr. banner at Penha Longa in Portugal and Wisley in Surrey are excellent courses.

The Grove, also in Surrey, is highly regarded in a very posh neighborhood.
The small wheel turns by the fire and rod,
the big wheel turns by the grace of God.

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kyle Phillips - in America and beyond
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2010, 01:32:20 AM »
The Grove, also in Surrey, is highly regarded in a very posh neighborhood.

Steve

I haven't read much press on The Grove post opening - do you know how it's being recieved ?

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kyle Phillips - in America and beyond
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2010, 01:43:36 PM »
I attended a great presentation from Kyle at Morgan Creek in Sacramento at the same time he was working on Cal Club. I am looking forward to seeing what he accomplished at Del Paso CC in Sacramento and revisiting the Cal Club.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kyle Phillips - in America and beyond
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2010, 02:20:56 PM »
I've played Kingsbarns and Dundonald. Like night and day. Kingsbarns is the best engineering job I've seen in course design in Scotland (I've still to see Castle Stuart properly but from what I've seen on here I don't think it will match up in that sense). The course looks superb and plenty of WOW factor. If I had a criticism it is that once you've played it a few times it begins to pale, mainly I think because it lacks the challenge of other championship contenders. The fairways are wide open and the greens are a lot larger than most other links that you'll play, oh and its not a links either but then thats the brilliance of the engineering job that it looks like it is and mostly plays like it is.

Dundonald, well thats another bucket of mackerel. Frankly, given the site, a couple of hundred acres at least of flat sand on which to build anything you desired, the result is disappointing which is not to say that it doesn't have some good golf. It does but quite a bit of the design isn't links (push-up style/upturn saucer greens, forced carries onto greens where the approach shot was either a wood or long iron) and the off course mounding/landscaping is quite crude.

Why the difference ? Well firstly I think the client had a lot to do with it. Philips probably couldn't have got a better client than Mark Parsinen at Kingsbarns while the client at Dundonald only thought he was Mark Parsinen. The reality was something different.

Secondly, I suspect that Dundonald ran out of cash or at least the client decided enough was enough. On the other hand I suspect that Kingsbarns was the most expensive golf course built in Scotland up to that time.

Niall

Adam_Messix

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kyle Phillips - in America and beyond
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2010, 03:11:55 PM »
From what I've seen of Kyle's work, it's definitely worth the effort to play anything he's been a part of.  Kingsbarns is really nice, but his work at the Cal Club is absolutely fantastic.  It looks like a total restoration even though it wasn't.  I also liked the work he did to the 12 green at Morfontaine; a definite improvement on the original green, but looks like it totally belongs. 

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kyle Phillips - in America and beyond
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2010, 03:56:42 PM »
Kingsbarns is nothing short of brilliant, and starting with a flat field no one could create a great course without moving a lot of dirt. Anyway, it's not like moving dirt breaks one of the Ten Commandments.

It's been years since I've seen them, so I don't remeber much detail, but work Kyle did under the R.T. Jones Jr. banner at Penha Longa in Portugal and Wisley in Surrey are excellent courses.

The Grove, also in Surrey, is highly regarded in a very posh neighborhood.
Steve,

The Grove is in Hertfordshire not Surrey and it's in Watford which, whilst home to my favourite son's football club is far from a very posh neighbourhood!  I haven't played the course but have a client who's offering to take me there this summer.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kyle Phillips - in America and beyond
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2010, 05:18:00 PM »
Tony,

You must have read me wrong, Mother said "Bobby, life is unfair, get used to it." I was eight years old. She died a week later.

Bob

Bob apologies for my glibness while misquoting you. I had no idea of the situation in which she gave you those true words.
Let's make GCA grate again!

Steve Okula

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kyle Phillips - in America and beyond
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2010, 01:24:36 AM »
Kingsbarns is nothing short of brilliant, and starting with a flat field no one could create a great course without moving a lot of dirt. Anyway, it's not like moving dirt breaks one of the Ten Commandments.

It's been years since I've seen them, so I don't remeber much detail, but work Kyle did under the R.T. Jones Jr. banner at Penha Longa in Portugal and Wisley in Surrey are excellent courses.

The Grove, also in Surrey, is highly regarded in a very posh neighborhood.
Steve,

The Grove is in Hertfordshire not Surrey and it's in Watford which, whilst home to my favourite son's football club is far from a very posh neighbourhood!  I haven't played the course but have a client who's offering to take me there this summer.

My bad. Obviously, I've never been there, but everyone I talk to who has has praised it.

Perhaps you could answer Kevin's question about how it's been received?
The small wheel turns by the fire and rod,
the big wheel turns by the grace of God.

Jay Flemma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kyle Phillips - in America and beyond
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2010, 10:04:51 AM »
Anybody have any pix? Of The Grove?  Kingsbarns?
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

Matt_Ward

Re: Kyle Phillips - in America and beyond
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2010, 05:47:54 PM »
I've played a few KP courses but I would thoroughly recommend people here in the States to play Morgan Creek -- gets little attention because the Sacramento area is not known as a golf hot spot although there are a few layouts like Winchester which are nearby and worth a play.

Morgan Creek provides a totally different golf experience than one's proverbial residential property layout.

Jed Peters

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kyle Phillips - in America and beyond
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2010, 08:28:48 PM »
Morgan Creek provides a totally different golf experience than one's proverbial residential property layout.

Nah, that place is crap.

Kyle Henderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kyle Phillips - in America and beyond
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2010, 01:37:08 AM »
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kyle Phillips - in America and beyond
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2010, 06:36:38 PM »
I don't know how much of the course is Mr. Phillips's work (including some renovations), but RTJ in Northern VA is really good -- and possibly underrated because of the name.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2010, 01:00:34 PM by Carl Nichols »

Jay Flemma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kyle Phillips - in America and beyond
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2010, 11:34:43 AM »
Kyle told me he worked west of the Mississippi...with RTJ2.  So I don't know if he'd have done RTJ in VA.  I do hear good things about it from the natives:)
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kyle Phillips - in America and beyond
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2010, 01:01:26 PM »
Jay:
I'm quite certain that he's worked on RTJ, I just don't know the extent of the work.