[TEPaul]

"Deal is on my very shortest list of courses to see this year."


Me too! How about those amazing "alpinized" bunker surrounds and grass islands in bunkers?? Do you think LAWRENCE VAN ETTEN may've been on a spy mission to Bali like in 1895 to have concieved of something like that? I bet the guy was part of the Anglo-American opium trade shipping cabal that made all those old Anglo-Saxon snooty American Aristocrat families like the Cabots and Lodges and Alsops and such so RICH in the early 19th century.  With a name like Van Etten it sounds like he was from one of those Dutch Burgher banking families who would financed anyone for a usery yield, even dyed-in-the-wool enemies like England and Germany and France, not to even mention the thereinof pip-squeak American colonies-cum-states.  

[Mike Cirba]

Tom,

Van Etten was one of the most advanced of the very early American practicioners of the art, and his work in Westchester County at Knolllwood, Wykagyl, and what is today the public course at Pelham stlll exhibit some of his handiwork.   I don't know much of his story but I do know he was well-regarded in those formative years.

[TEPaul]

That's fascinating to me Mike. Truly. Do you want to be the first to inform MacWood about him? But before you do, I'd like to know if you personally feel Lawrence Van Etten was a better architect or talent for GCA than William Robinson or HH Barker.

[Sean_A]

Sean,
What would have made them change those good looking bunkers in the old photos? Maintenance?

Jim

Perhaps it was maintenance, but I couldn't be sure.  It sure wasn't too much about economy because Muirfield has about 150 of these things and I don't think they are cheap to keep in good nick.  It would be interesting see an old map including the bunkering scheme and prevailing wind posted.  One thing I would say, I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell that Simpson created that grass island bunker as we see it today - if he did create it all. 

Ciao 

[Jim_Kennedy]

Sean,
Between ScottMac and TMac's info it appears the time frame fits for Simpson to have been responsible for the bunker that's shown in the old photo, but the one in Tony's photo bears little resemblance to that, and fits neatly into the scheme of the other 150.
 

[Sean_A]

Sean,
Between ScottMac and TMac's info it appears the time frame fits for Simpson to have been responsible for the bunker that's shown in the old photo, but the one in Tony's photo bears little resemblance to that, and fits neatly into the scheme of the other 150.
 

Jim

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Simpson put in an island bunker because he was as much about flair as good bunker placing, but I can't believe Simpson would have built it in such a sterile manner as we see today - that is what I meant to say.

Ciao

[Jim_Kennedy]

Sean,
Sterile wouldn't seem to be part of the man's reputation.

[Tom MacWood]

Van Etten's first design experience came in 1895 when he assisted Willie Park II layout Knollwood (NY). I suppose you could say Van Etten was a protege of Park's. Park's business associate went on to become the first professional at Knollwood.
 

[Mike Cirba]

Tom,

What is the source of Park's design of Knollwood?

Thanks.

[Tom MacWood]

NY Times.

[Mike Cirba]

Tom,

I wonder if the club is aware?

That would obviously be one of his earliest in the states.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Mike,
I was looking back on some Knollwood threads and TMac posted about Park/Van Etten's work together way back in '04.

Another interesting bit was the speculation by Phil Young that AWT got sacked because he OK'ed the  purcahse of some very bad acreage for the golf course, opening the door for Raynor, and eventually Banks, to get the commission.

[Mike Cirba]

Thanks, Jim...I must have missed that.   

Went to their website history and I don't see any mention of Park....do you think they're aware?

[Brian_Ewen]

Did Dr. MacKenzie build any Island bunkers , apart from Hazlehead ?

[Neil_Crafter]

Brian
I didn't know he built one at Hazlehead. Where exactly?
As for other courses, can't think of one off the top of my head.

[Bill_McBride]

Sean,
Between ScottMac and TMac's info it appears the time frame fits for Simpson to have been responsible for the bunker that's shown in the old photo, but the one in Tony's photo bears little resemblance to that, and fits neatly into the scheme of the other 150.
 

Jim

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Simpson put in an island bunker because he was as much about flair as good bunker placing, but I can't believe Simpson would have built it in such a sterile manner as we see today - that is what I meant to say.

Ciao

I suppose that could be due to modern maintenance practices.......think of how the Hell Bunker looks today, all manicured and neat, compared to photos of the old Hell Bunker with its terrifying shagginess.   

[Neil_Crafter]

Thanks for the pic Brian - what hole is that?
Doesn't look particularly Mackenzie-like - probably most of the bunkers you could say that about I imagine. I wonder if it is indeed an original?

[Neil_Crafter]

here's a pic I found of the 10th at Cypress from Kevin Pallier's recent thread.  Just looked at an early pic of the hole and the island was there originally. So Brian, that's one at least!

[Brian_Ewen]

Thanks for the pic Brian - what hole is that?
Doesn't look particularly Mackenzie-like - probably most of the bunkers you could say that about I imagine. I wonder if it is indeed an original?

Neil
The island bunker is on Hazleheads 14th fairway.

I have no idea if its original or not, but because its a municipal, the course is pretty much like it was when MacKenzie left, well apart from the dynamiting that he didnt like .

I have somewhere a plan from a local newspaper, it showed the routing that he wanted to use , and the one they ended up with , and that part of the course is pretty much like it is today. Unfortunately it doesnt show bunkering.

The island bunker was always been a headscratcher to me , as it looks out of place , almost splitting two fairways.

But if I was a betting man, I would be tempted to say its original .

[Neil_Crafter]

Thanks Brian
It just looks so regular that you have to wonder. Would love to see those newspaper plans you mentioned - perhaps you could email me direct if they are scanned.

neil@golfstrategies.com.au

Niall Carlton is investigating Hazlehead through the local council archives and has come up with a lot of correspondence including Mac's reports and some letters. Very interesting. No plans though sadly.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Isn't there one on the 10th at Turnberry?

[Mike Cirba]

Compliments of and thanks to Tom MacWood, this is the NY Times article on Knollwood he referred me to.

Doesn't it make you wish every course of this vintage had such a detailed, alaborate, definitive, contemporaneous article?

It also provides some interesting insight into Park's evolution as an architect as this routing is...interesting, to say the least.

[SPDB]

As mentioned earlier in this post, there is a grass island in a bunker short of the 10th Green at Lundin Golf Club. I assume that this was the work of Braid, who built the 9 holes on the Northern side of the rail line to complement the 9 holes on the Lundin side of the links the club shared with Leven. I think the 10th is the best of the Braid(y) Bunch, requiring the player to thread the tee ball down a narrow shoot in order to be rewarded with the only clear view of the green shown in the first picture. The 2d picture is taken from the 14th tee looking down at the 10th greensite. 

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