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Peter Ferlicca

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Florida Project
« on: February 20, 2010, 09:13:56 PM »
I had the great pleasure of guiding a group around Stone Eagle today.  It was the developer of the new resort facility that is hopefully going to be built in Florida.  I am sure most of you have seen Tom Doak talking about it, and it sounds like it is going to be spectacular.  It is a 36 hole facility built on about 550 acres.  It will be an isolated site with no houses; the resort will be 2 miles away.  The two designers are Tom Doak (Renaissance), and Coore and Crenshaw.  He made it sound like he is having them work together on the projects.  If that is true, we should expect some great golf courses.  He mentioned the property was all white sand, with dunes throughout.  There are wild grasses and bushes on the land, not to many trees.  The golf course is an hour from Orlando, and an hour from Tampa.  If the property is as good as it sounds, I think we are going to have ourselves two great new courses.  He also mentioned he wants them both to be around 7,450 yards, (Those are going to be some LONG courses), but firm.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 02:00:33 PM by PFerlicca »
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Dan Herrmann

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Re: Bandon of the East?
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2010, 09:16:56 PM »
URL?  Any more information?
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Cliff Hamm

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Re: Bandon of the East?
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2010, 09:23:00 PM »
Googled and found nothing..I do wish that excellent courses, especially by
TD and C&C, would open with greens fees more in line with WW.  $100 is not cheap for a round of golf and $200 is beyond my budget unless exceptional.  If as good as Bandon perhaps worth the $200 to many  but I will likely never know.  Just another problem with golf.  The price is out of control...
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Dan Herrmann

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Re: Bandon of the East?
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2010, 09:35:45 PM »
Cliff,
That's exactly why I love the Cabot Links concept.  Affordable and it looks like it'll be a fantastic experience.
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Cliff Hamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon of the East?
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2010, 09:39:28 PM »
Living in New England and only having been to Nova Scotia once I am very much looking forward to Cabot Links.  I did not realize that fees were to be 'reasonable'; that makes it even more enticing.
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Peter Ferlicca

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Re: Bandon of the East?
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2010, 09:40:43 PM »
It is $275 at Bandon during primetime, and I doubt they will charge that much.  He was making it sound like $200 for primetime, but I am guessing that is year round in Florida.
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Patrick Hodgdon

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Re: Bandon of the East?
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2010, 10:12:52 PM »
http://www.cfdc.org/news/mosaic-plans-resort-facility-in-polk-county/

I think we connected the dots on this back in Nov/Dec. The location is actually just southeast of Lakeland when I looked it up on a map.

Being in FL an not having played on a Doak yet I know I can't wait and Tom dropping hints about how great the site is only adds to the anticipation. Countdown to 2013 starts now...
« Last Edit: February 20, 2010, 10:26:49 PM by Patrick Hodgdon »
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PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon of the East?
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2010, 10:42:41 PM »
From my experience traveling around FL, I can't imagine a site that is 1/100th as good as anything at bandon, but Tom Doak seams pretty excited about this opportunity.

One thing that this project does seem to have going for it is that Orlando and Tampa are a heck of a lot easier to get to than Oregon for 90% of the US population.

While $200 sounds expensive, if the courses are Top 50 material they suddenly sound like a bargain!  :)
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H.P.S.

cary lichtenstein

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Re: Bandon of the East?
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2010, 11:41:44 PM »
What does the phosphate refer to? Do they mine it? What is it used for? Who would finance a esort today?
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Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Tiger_Bernhardt

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Re: Bandon of the East?
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2010, 02:48:16 AM »
There actually can be a great site in that area. I have not heard to much about the project. How is Sugar Loaf doing?
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Michael Rossi

Re: Bandon of the East?
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2010, 08:43:43 AM »
Quote from: cary lichtenstein on February 20, 2010, 11:41:44 PM
What does the phosphate refer to? Do they mine it? What is it used for? Who would finance a esort todaya?

Phosphate is mined and used for fertilizer.
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Jud_T

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Re: Bandon of the East?
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2010, 08:56:52 AM »
7450?! I guess I'll be playing from the whites......How about knocking 600 yards and $20/round off?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 09:01:18 AM by Jud Tigerman »
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Joe Bausch

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Re: Bandon of the East?
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2010, 09:02:29 AM »
Quote from: Jud Tigerman on February 21, 2010, 08:56:52 AM
7450?! I guess I'll be playing from the whites......How about knocking 600 yards and $20/round off?

Will that be the white phosphorus tees Jud?  Or perhaps even the red phosphorus tees?

;)  :)
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@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Bandon of the East?
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2010, 09:11:41 AM »
Peter:

Your player didn't mention if it was okay for you to talk about the project online, did he?  Because he told me the other day we still shouldn't be giving out details [such as the ones you are giving out] for another couple of months.

I would love to tell you all about it, but I'm on gag order.  You did get a couple of the details wrong.  And I don't think they have any idea what they will be charging for green fees yet.


Pat C:

The site is quite a bit better than you imagine, for being 50 miles from the ocean.  My best guess is that they moved something like 12 million cubic yards of earth (500 acres times 15 feet average elevation change) during the mining operation to accidentally create the landscape for the two courses.  So it really doesn't look like Florida at all.
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henrye

Re: Bandon of the East?
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2010, 09:27:28 AM »
It'll be interesting to see how the US minimalism pros handle a maximalist project.
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Mike Hamilton

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Re: Bandon of the East?
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2010, 09:32:41 AM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on February 21, 2010, 09:11:41 AM
Peter:

Your player didn't mention if it was okay for you to talk about the project online, did he?  Because he told me the other day we still shouldn't be giving out details [such as the ones you are giving out] for another couple of months.

I would love to tell you all about it, but I'm on gag order.  You did get a couple of the details wrong.  And I don't think they have any idea what they will be charging for green fees yet.


Pat C:

The site is quite a bit better than you imagine, for being 50 miles from the ocean.  My best guess is that they moved something like 12 million cubic yards of earth (500 acres times 15 feet average elevation change) during the mining operation to accidentally create the landscape for the two courses.  So it really doesn't look like Florida at all.


Since we are perpetuating rumors, I drove through that area south of Lakeland two weeks ago on a business trip.  It has a long history...something like 70 or 80 years....of phosphate mining...and is also covered with "mountains" of gypsum which are a byproduct of reacting phosphate rock with sulfuric acid in the manufacture of phosphate fertilizers.  It is an interesting landscape.  Was wondering if anyone had ever considered the area for golf courses.  It's not a long drive from the Orlando resort area but lots of seclusion.  I'm guessing that even during the real estate boom that land there was pretty cheap.

I think a great choice...A high quality golf site there would be a welcome addition to the hum drum golf of the Orlando area and with WW an hour or so north would vastly improve the area as a golf destination.

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Kyle Harris

Re: Bandon of the East?
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2010, 09:37:11 AM »
Some good little golf courses in that area - especially around Mountain Lake.

Lekarica is a downtrodden Stiles/Van Kleek.
Cleveland Heights has more than enough Flynn touches to make for an interesting exploration.
Bridgewater is a decent Smyers.

Spent the better part of two years traversing that area for one reason or the other.
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Mike Hamilton

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Re: Bandon of the East?
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2010, 09:54:16 AM »
Quote from: cary lichtenstein on February 20, 2010, 11:41:44 PM
What does the phosphate refer to? Do they mine it? What is it used for? Who would finance a esort today?

According to the link,

http://www.cfdc.org/news/mosaic-plans-resort-facility-in-polk-county/,

Mosaic, one of the largest fertilizer companies in the world, owns the land once used for mines and would be developing....
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JESII

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Re: Bandon of the East?
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2010, 10:01:16 AM »
Quote from: cary lichtenstein on February 20, 2010, 11:41:44 PM
Who would finance a esort today?


Wouldn't it be the person that thinks the market will have recovered a few years from now?
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Roger Wolfe

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Re: Bandon of the East?
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2010, 10:07:35 AM »
Another awesome, incredible golf experience for the rich and privileged
that I cannot get my members to play due to the fee... bummer.

I will, however, try my hardest.  Sounds awesome Tom !

Primland of the South
« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 10:09:52 AM by Roger Wolfe »
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Mike Hamilton

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Re: Bandon of the East?
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2010, 10:08:23 AM »
If you already own the land, it's worth little to nothing due to its history, and who knows, maybe there are even incentives available to develop the reclaimed land...I'm guessing the economics become more compelling.
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Sean Leary

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Re: Bandon of the East?
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2010, 10:38:10 AM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on February 21, 2010, 09:11:41 AM
Peter:

Your player didn't mention if it was okay for you to talk about the project online, did he?  Because he told me the other day we still shouldn't be giving out details [such as the ones you are giving out] for another couple of months.




I agree that when I read this I thought the same thing. But if it is such a secret than he shouldn't be talking about it with a caddy. IMO.
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cary lichtenstein

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Re: Bandon of the East?
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2010, 12:23:21 PM »
One of the architects I admire is Jeff Brauer for his work at Giants Ridge, another abondoned mining project. Too bad he wasn't included for consideration.
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Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Peter Ferlicca

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon of the East?
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2010, 12:36:41 PM »
Quote from: Sean Leary on February 21, 2010, 10:38:10 AM
Quote from: Tom_Doak on February 21, 2010, 09:11:41 AM
Peter:

Your player didn't mention if it was okay for you to talk about the project online, did he?  Because he told me the other day we still shouldn't be giving out details [such as the ones you are giving out] for another couple of months.




I agree that when I read this I thought the same thing. But if it is such a secret than he shouldn't be talking about it with a caddy. IMO.

To defend myself here, I am the assistant pro there and I caddy on special occasions for certain groups.  I caddied for this group because he wanted to learn a lot about Stone Eagle.  I asked him tons of questions about the project, and he never once said anything about being quiet.  I even mentioned that there is a website online that is talking about it, and he got all excited.  I am sorry if I let out information to early. 
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Tim Nugent

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Re: Bandon of the East?
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2010, 12:55:11 PM »
OT a few yrs back I was looking at a site west of Plant City and came across a course SE of Plant City off Coronet Rd that was in dire straights financally.  I was struck by the snow white ground around the lakes to the north (looked like something from a different planet or nuclear winter) and was told it was from phosphate mining.  Does anyone know how this  (or whether) this effects the ecology of nearby land or the groundwater?
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Coasting is a downhill process
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