[Jordan Wall]

Pebble and Sand Hills have been previously mentioned, what are others?

How many par-5's does a course need to present to be considerd as having one of the top sets?

How much does diversity with regards to length affect how good the par-5's are on a particular course?  Can a course with par-5's all similar in distance still be considered to have a great set of par-5's?

Are par-5's the hardest holes to design, and if so, how much harder does that make finding a great collaboration of them on a particular course?

Cheers,

[Cliff Hamm]

Tobacco Road should be in the conversation.  Perhaps not world class, but lots of fun with risk/reward.

[Bart Bradley]

Jordan:

It seems to me that the answer is probably Augusta National......

Bart

[J_ Crisham]

Jordan,      I would submit that Beverly CC has as fine a set of par 5s as you would see anywhere. There are 4 of them that range from 565 yds to 605 yds. The greens sites are well bunkered and the greens have a good deal of movement in them. While birdies can be made they are far from common. With the exception of #2 , very rarely are they hit in 2 swings. Very few courses have 4 above average par 5's in my opinion.  Just my observations,    Jack              

[Alex Miller]

Jordan,      I would submit that Beverly CC has as fine a set of par 5s as you would see anywhere. There are 4 of them that range from 565 yds to 605 yds. The greens sites are well bunkered and the greens have a good deal of movement in them. While birdies can be made they are far from common. With the exception of #2 , very rarely are they hit in 2 swings. Very few courses have 4 above average par 5's in my opinion.  Just my observations,    Jack              

4 par 5s within 40 yards of each other and not reachable in 2 for 95% of golfers? No thanks. They may be great holes but I would want more variety from my set of par 5s.

I agree with Bart that Augusta's are probably the best. They provide some of the greatest risk reward shots anywhere, let alone on a par 5. Very few courses have any holes on par with 13 and 15, let alone 2 par 5s.

[Bill Rocco]

Galloway National, three par fives of 548, 539, and 531. Also, the fourth and "short" par 5 on the course is around 500 yard but guarded by water in front making your shot worthy of a second thought....

[Mike Cirba]

Along with some already mentioned, Friar's Head certainly ranks up there, and beileve it or not, Metedeconk National in NJ has six very good par fives.

Pine Valley only needs two par fives to qualify here.

[Ian Andrew]

It's definately Highlands Links

6, 7, 15 and 16 (11 was never originally a five)

All of them are great, which is amazing.

[Ben Sims]

Gotta throw in Crystal Downs.   Even though it has only two, they are very good.  Both of them are effectively true three shotters, which more par 5's should be.

--EDIT--  I have to argue that Augusta's par 5's are great TOURNAMENT holes.  But over the course of the day to day play for the mere mortal golfer, they are probably no better than above average.  Just my opinion.

[Tim Bert]

Ben - two par 5s at Crystal Downs??  Are you sure we played the same course?  When I played there were at least 7 or 8 par 5s, not counting the par seven 10th hole. 

Seriously, the 8th is no doubt all world but I don't put 16 in that same class. I still can't find anything that isn't world class about the 3 at Sand Hills despite Patrick insisting that the set at Pebble is superior. 

[Eric Smith]

I think the fives at World Woods - Pine Barrens are top notch, particularly #'s 4 and 14.

Maybe a homer on this one, but I also think we have a really good set of them at Holston Hills.

[Anthony Gray]

Tobacco Road should be in the conversation.  Perhaps not world class, but lots of fun with risk/reward.

  Can't remember any of them.

  Anthony

[Anthony Gray]

  TPC at Sawgrass. All four you remember.

  Anthony

[Jordan Wall]

Gotta throw in Crystal Downs.   Even though it has only two, they are very good.  Both of them are effectively true three shotters, which more par 5's should be.

--EDIT--  I have to argue that Augusta's par 5's are great TOURNAMENT holes.  But over the course of the day to day play for the mere mortal golfer, they are probably no better than above average.  Just my opinion.

Ben,

Average!?  How so?

How do the holes change between tournament and member play?

What makes the holes less playable for the members?

Also, what is another course which has 'average' par-5's that you would put in the same class as Augusta?

Thanks

[JMorgan]

Ocean course 2 and 7, 11 and 16

Two of the four, one from each nine:

No. 2



































No. 11:

[John Moore II]

Tobacco Road should be in the conversation.  Perhaps not world class, but lots of fun with risk/reward.

  Can't remember any of them.

  Anthony

I can agree with either response, but the truth is somewhere in between I think. I mean, #1, beyond the humps, is fairly bland, straight, straight, straight. Just a little bit of strategy to decide where to hit your second shot. #4 and #11 are mirrors of each other for the most part, both are played exactly the same just in different directions. And #13 is a really boring hole  either way you play it. The only option for the hole is to cut over all the trees, and thats something only a very, very select few can do (I've tried to cut over it once and never found that ball again). I think the par 5's at TR are OK, but nothing other worldly. I actually think Tot Hill Farm has a better set of par 5's than does Tobacco Road.

[Ben Sims]

Gotta throw in Crystal Downs.   Even though it has only two, they are very good.  Both of them are effectively true three shotters, which more par 5's should be.

--EDIT--  I have to argue that Augusta's par 5's are great TOURNAMENT holes.  But over the course of the day to day play for the mere mortal golfer, they are probably no better than above average.  Just my opinion.

Ben,

Average!?  How so?

How do the holes change between tournament and member play?

What makes the holes less playable for the members?

Also, what is another course which has 'average' par-5's that you would put in the same class as Augusta?

Thanks

Whoa!  Jordan, dude.  Have a beer, relax. No one said Augusta is the worst golf course on the planet or anything.  It's just a matter of preference. 

At Augusta, you're either playing a 570 yard par 5, or a 520 yard par 5.  Please don't confuse Sunday drama with quality golf architecture.  Both par 5's on the back are reachable, short par 5's, with water in front.  On the back, they're both 570 yards, and favor a draw on the second shot (though the green sites are fairly different.  They are all considered reachable by a large percentage of the field.  And don't quote me that "Zach Johnson laid up on all of them in '07 and won" pile of garbage.  Everyone knows the conditions weren't very conducive to anything that year. No one will ever tell me that the "new" Augusta is suited toall players, the long ball still wins there.

Sorry, soapbox over.  But I'm just tired of seeing Augusta mentioned for best sets of anything.  It is a course designed for drama for one weekend of the year. 

To more directly answer your questions:

1) I said ABOVE average.  That means pretty good, but not best. 
2) Between tourney and member play?  I'd say a fair amount of yards and conditions.  And about 40,000 spectators, and etc...
3) What makes it less playable?  I don't know how many members are playing it the way the pros do.  No run up shots available on the backside par 5's.  Be certain that there aren't many 5-10 'capper's bitting 230 yard 3 irons into 13.  Maybe the frontside plays slightly the same way.
4) Par 5's that are in the same class as Augusta.  Hmm...I'll have to get back to you on that one.  That I've seen?  Bandon Trails is pretty solid set (but not near the best) that stacks up well. 

[Anthony Gray]

  Augusta National?

   Anthony

[Kevin Pallier]

The Lakes (NSW)
Muirfield

[Carl Nichols]

I mentioned it on the other thread, but I think Congressional has a good set:

#6 is reachable, but has a fronting pond [and stone wall, ala Merion] that makes it a good risk-reward hole.

#9 has a deep valley in front of the green that makes going for the green a very dicey proposition, plus the way the trees frame the green puts a premium on the layup.

#11 (was #10) is reachable, but there's a hazard on the right side of the green that gobbles up balls [it's usually mowed pretty tight up to the edge of the hazard].  my main criticism of this hole is that the LZ has bunkers between the fairway and the creek that runs the length of the hole.

#16 is a traditional parkland par 5 with a tricky green with a little falloff in front that makes pitching/chipping pretty tough.  I hit it pretty far, and I still can't believe the pros can think about getting home from the big-boy tees. 

[Jim Nugent]

--EDIT--  I have to argue that Augusta's par 5's are great TOURNAMENT holes.  But over the course of the day to day play for the mere mortal golfer, they are probably no better than above average.  Just my opinion.

Might that depend on which set of tees you play? 

[Jonathan Cummings]

Carl - Congressional??  Four okay 3-shotters for the members but such dogs for the pros that they eliminate 2 of them for the tournaments.  JC

[Mike Cirba]

JMorgan,

Thanks for showing us instead of just telling us.   Very nice photo tour! 

[jonathan_becker]

JMorgan,

#2 at Kiawah is one of my favorite par 5s anywhere.  Draw it off the tee and hit a big high cut into the green.  It's got great strategic design and great vistas as well.

[Matthew Hunt]

If one could stretch the rules to include the old 'member's par' at Royal county Down it has to be up there. 1, 9, 12 and 18 are a top-notch set.

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