Bobby Weed's Timuquana

[Jeff Mingay]

I had the pleasure of visiting Jacksonville, Fla.'s Timuquana CC last week. The golf course there was originally laid-out by Donald Ross in 1923, but by the mid 1990s very little of the original design was intact. According to Bobby Weed, the deterioration was so severe that the course HAD TO BE  completely reconstructed. So he reconstructed it!

To purists, the reconstruction of a Ross original is so often considered sacrilege. But let me tell you, I bet more than a few self-proclaimed Ross aficionados would be fooled by Weed's completed work at Timuquana. If you didn't know any better, most would think Ross' original design had never been touched. Weed's work is respectful and classy, to say the least. And it reaks of classic golf course architecture.

Timuquana CC sits on the shore of the St. John River looking toward downtown Jacksonville, and is dotted with many mature specimens -- pine and live oak (Weed and co. took down some 800 trees to accent many beatiful specimens). I'd say, Weed was very fortunate to have inherited a Ross routing on such a very interesting and attractive property. I mean, you just don't get sites like this for new construction: the history, the views, the trees, the clubhouse, etc. And again, he and his associate Scott Sherman took full advantage of the opportunity presented to them.

Timuquana is basically flat. And thus, I was very impressed with the low-profile nature of all the golf course features -- particularly the tees, most of which sat right on grade: a la Garden City. The fairways roll beautifully, and the green complexes are excellent as well. The interest of most is in the predominate pitch rather than interior contour, and the surrounds and approaches are great! Weed's attention to detail in the construction of the putting surfaces and their surrounds and approaches is very evident, and most impressive. (The same is true over at the Ponte Vedra Club's Ocean course, which was original laid-out by Herbert Strong in the 1930s and recnstructed by Weed in the mid 1990s.)

Timuquana is an excellent example of what an old club can do to improve an aged golf course. BUT, REMEMBER, THERE'S A FINE LINE BETWEEN ARCHITECTS WHO CAN CARRY OUT THIS TYPE OF METICULOUS WORK AND THOSE WHO CANNOT.

Kudos to Weed Design and Timuquana CC, which is scheduled to host the 2002 US Senior Amateur Championship later this year.

[Jeff Mingay]

I should also pointed out, there's an excellent section on Timuquana in Brad Klein's Donald Ross book.

And that I found it strange the club continues to credit Ross as the course architect on its scorecard. Sure, the routing is pure Ross, but the rest is Bobby Weed.

How should the card read?

[Dunlop_White]

Through sources at the Ross Society, I heard that Timuquana was so absorbed in trees that 12 holes had become doglegs in the early 90's, even a par 3. After Weed I heard that members are enjoying lateral spaces that they never knew once existed.

Since this was in fact a restoration, certainly Timuquana should promote the course as a Donald Ross.(with a footnote: Restoration by Bobby Weed)

[lesueur]

Jeff,

I worked for MacCurrach Golf during the reconstruction of Timuquana and was involved in the green construction and finish work.
You're correct when you mention Weed's attention to detail in the construction of greens and surrounds. I remember that he insisted upon carrying out the final finishing himself. We pulled him over the greens and surrounds clinging on to the back of a sand-pro, "skiing" on a small timber float. We got some strange looks from the members but it seemed to work, he maybe still uses this method.
Some credit must also be given to the shaper he used at the time, I believe his name was "Stump".
I have a few amateurish photos from the construction but I need some help to post them!! Somebody help please??

[Derek_Duncan (Guest)]

I  have not seen Timuquana but hearing it from Jeff and Bobby Weed, it sounds incredible.  I have, however, spent time at the University of Florida course which opened in December after Weed's "start over" was completed.  From what Jeff writes about the green complexes and "the predominate pitch" at Timuquana he could also be describing UF.  Quite simply I've never seen a short golf course with such bite (and one that becomes more difficult the more it is played), due almost exclusively to the tumultuous green complexes and some areas of death that weren't there before.  The best work is on the edges of the greens and just off them.

UF was a simplistic, average/below average design that existed exclusively above the ground with little interest other than whatever sentemental attachment the player put into it.  Like Jeff describes at Timuquana, there was almost no Ross left, and as Steve Smyers mentioned once (he played for UF on the old course) it probably wasn't a very good Ross course even in the 1920's.  

Weed and Sherman have aggressively reshaped it using certain principles of classical architecture, the likes and degree of which I've not seen used before in Florida (Timuquana excluded).  

Greens either roll off into depressed chipping areas or are squared off a la Raynor/MacDonald so getting up and down using a variety of methods is a frequent mandate.  Though there are no blind shots, features are often not what they appear--pure depth perception cannot be counted on.  The difference between a well-played shot and trouble is often the finest of lines--I've seen balls land on the edge of a green and kick left or right down a slope into a bunker, players putt off greens, and GIR's that cannot be two-putted.  The bunkering is random and varied, existing at ground level and in depressions best suited for "collection" rather than pure penalty, and are almost never flashed.  At least six greens reward a run-up shot over an aerial attack.  Finally, the tie-in of several of the off-green chipping areas to the green contour is at times fascinating if not brilliant.

I know this thread is about Weed's tremendous work at Timuquana, but the same praise can be used for UF as well.  Anyone wishing to see impressive neo-classical architecture in north Florida should make the trip to Gainesville, hopefully right after they've finished at Timuquana!

[Jeff Mingay]

Thanks Derek, for the detailed report on the Univ. of Florida golf course. Good stuff! On my next visit to Fla., I must make an effort to stop at Gainesville.

Dunlop,

Timuquana was not a restoration, by any means. It was a complete reconstruction. Weed and Sherman were obviously "inspired" by Ross -- their work hints of a Ross influence, sure -- but there's nothing on the golf course today that Ross thought up, other than the routing.

It's all Bobby Weed. And it's good  

[Dunlop_White]

Jeff,

I apologize, but I disagree!

Weed's masterful work at Timuquana is clearly a "Sympathetic restoration". Sympathetic Restorations entail a careful interpretation of the original architect's style and design intent and retrofitting such to the modern standards of maintenance and play. For instance, this would require not only reinstating lost Ross carry bunkers, but also moving them further away from the tee to account for today's issues of length. Today's architects will attempt to utilize the original architect's style, intent and design philosophies, then adapt them to today's standards.

Weed reported: "we concentrated our efforts on determining Ross' strategic intention, and then bringing that strategy into the modern context". Every endeavor, from repositioning bunkers, removing tree growth to provide strategic width, reviving subtle contours and simplistic shapes, and reconstructing the greens was done in keeping with Ross' style and with a concentrated eye toward his preferences. Though far from a "Pure restoration", Weed's work at Timuquana fits the definition of a "Sympathic restoration" perfectly, and it has been coined as such.

Jeff, there are many, including myself, who freely toss around this buzz word, "restoration", without qualifying its specific type: 1. "TRUE/PURE" 2. "PARTIAL/DATE-SPECIFIC" 3."SYMPATHETIC/EMPATHETIC" 4. "COMPREHENSIVE". Such terminology becomes more confusing when "renovation" is thrown in the mix.

Sorry for the mix up!  

[Jeff Mingay]

Dunlop,

Your definition of Weed's work at Timuquana makes sense. As per your post above, it was indeed a "sympathetic restoration". I'll go with that  

You're right in that the word "restoration", in the context of classic golf courses, is yet to be defined, and may never be. I do know there are too many people in the business misusing the word for political gain. Nonetheless, your point is well made above.

Last, I will say again, there's a fine line between architects who can pull off what Weed did at Timuquana and those who cannot. For the most part, it's all about attention to detail throughout the (re)construction.

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

Here are Richard's pictures.

They are in order, but I will let him label them.

[Dunlop_White]

Sports Illustrated featured a series of interviews with Bobby Weed during the process at the University of Florida. Since you visited Bobby last week, reading the following may be of interest to you and may supplement your work on restoration versus renovation.
  

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/golf/news/2001/09/25/this_old_course/

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/golf/news/2001/08/07/this_old_course/


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/golf/news/2001/07/24/this_old_course/

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/golf/news/2001/07/10/this_old_course/

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/golf/news/2001/06/19/this_old_course/

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/golf/news/2001/06/05/this_old_course/

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/golf/news/2001/05/15/this_old_course/

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/golf/news/2001/05/01/this_old_course/

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/golf/news/2001/04/10/this_old_course/

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/golf/news/2001/03/27/this_old_course/

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/golf/news/2001/03/06/this_old_course/

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/golf/news/2001/02/12/this_old_course/

Honestly, I was a little surprised that Bobby didn't mention anything more about Linville G C, other than his bunker work. He revived much more, especially the tipping of the greens below the edge of the fillpad, extending the level of grass cuts away from the pins, strategic tree removal, rerouting creeks, and adding a little length. All was done in the Ross style but adapted in the modern context, much like Timuquana!

Dunlop

[Dunlop_White]

You may find some other artcles as well on the Bobby Weed website!