Bread And Butter Golf Courses

[Cliff Hamm]

In southern New England Achushnet River Valley - Brian Silva - comes to mind.   Parkland front, open back.  The recently re-done Connecticut National by Mark Mungeam also fits.  Both are $35 or less and quite enjoyable.

[Jason Topp]

The defninition of a "bread and butter" course for me is the first place I call for a tee time when just looking to play good golf at a decent price .  I will list one from each city in which I have spent some time:

Waveland - Des Moines, IA - beautiful land, fun layout, boring greens

Bunker Hills, Coon Rapids, MN - bland 7200 yard 60's course but in good condition with a great set of regulars

Vistal - Phoenix - fun and convienient

Rio Rico - Nogales, AZ - RTJ  with one good stretch of holes

Fred Enke - Tucson, AZ - an acquired taste - takes a few rounds to learn where to put the ball.  Several very awkward holes.  Despite all of its flaws, I think it has terrific par threes and one can score well if patient.

Finkbine - Iowa City, IA - 1960's Robert Bruce Harris course.  Good straightforward golf.

[Tim Bert]

I have always found a bread and butter course in each city I've lived for an extended period of time.

Memphis - Orgill GC
northwest Atlanta - Marietta City Club
Hartford - Rolling Meadows CC

Nashille has been a challenge for bread and butter. Probably the closest thing I have found that might qualify is Ted Rhodes GC.  I will have a few rounds to discover some alternatives since I am no longer at my club this year. 

[Tim Gavrich]

Simsbury Farms (muni), Simsbury, CT:  good but not great course, interesting mix of holes, nice but not spectacular location, terrific fall foliage, reasonable but not terrific conditioning .... and a great deal.

YES!

Geoffrey Cornish would seem to be the consummate bread-and-butter architect.  He never had much in the way of a "magnum opus" and none of his courses are especially high on state or national lists.  They're just solid, user-friendly, enjoyable golf courses.  Some of my favorites:

- Hop Meadow CC; Simsbury, CT--my home course for the first 18 years of my life.
- Portland GC; Portland, CT--not too long, but some fun downhill shots and big, clam-shell bunkers and good par 3s.
- Tower Ridge CC; Simsbury, CT--Draped over the side of a mountain as well as a few holes by the Farmington River.  Some good quirk and some excellent views of the Farmington Valley.
- Sugarloaf CC; Sugarloaf, PA--I played there with my father on the way back to W&L one time at the recommendation of Mike Cirba, and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Some others:
- Indian Wells GC; Surfside Beach, SC--a straightforward but enjoyable (and very affordable) earlier course on the Grand Strand that has two excellent short par 5s.  Designed by Gene Hamm.
- Paradise Point GC (Gold); Camp Lejeune, NC--solid, solid golf course on the Marine base in Jacksonville, NC where we play in a tournament every Spring.  George Cobb's first design, I believe.
- Triggs Memorial GC; Providence, RI--Providence's municipal course, a pretty well-preserved Donald Ross course.
- Shennecossett GC; Same as above; Groton, CT--basically the same case as Triggs.

[Jim Sweeney]

I guess just about everyone will dfine the term "bread and butter golf course" differently. Wouldn't they be 80% of all course, throwing our the top and bottom 10%'s? Or are those the "run of the mill" courses?

Anyway, around Cinci i would definitely include Maketewah CC (Nipper Campbell and Ross), because everyone who plays it finds it a fun course. (BTW, they just contracted with Silva for a masterplan); also Hyde Park, another Ross. On the public side, I'd say Sharon Woods in Cinci (Diddle) and Lassing Pointe (Hurdzan)in KY, newer but good, though higher end of the market here.

Others would be CC of Waterbury in CT (Ross), and Brookside in Columbus, OH (?).  

Seems like a lot of Ross course fit in this catagory- solid, fun, but not flashy- the "bread and butter" of golf course development in the golden age.

[Cliff Hamm]

- Triggs Memorial GC; Providence, RI--Providence's municipal course, a pretty well-preserved Donald Ross course.
- Shennecossett GC; Same as above; Groton, CT--basically the same case as Triggs.

Tim...I was going to include Shenny and Triggs in my southern NE list.  Chose not to as my definition of "bread and butter" is courses that would never be discussed here.  Thus a course may be quite affordable and a course you would play regularly, but if it has enough architectural merit to have been mentioned/discusssed  here I would put it beyond the bread and butter designation.  Depends  on one's definition.

[Mike Hendren]

The genesis for this thread was an e-mail my wife received from an Amish baker letting her know that a fresh batch of salt-rising bread came out of his oven this morning.  She's headed over there as we speak.  That's the quality of bread and butter I'm talking about - an extraordinary staple worth dropping what we're doing to procure.  For each of the courses I listed in my initial post, I'd indeed drop what I was doing if I received an invitation and would in no way feel that I was getting the short end of the golf course architectural stick.  

Bogey

I hate leaving LuLu CC off my list but its brilliance shines a little too brightly in places.  

[Mark Pearce]

In northern England Silloth and Goswick stand out but Northumberland, Tyneside, Brancepeth Castle and Hexham all qualify.

[Jaeger Kovich]

NYC metro:

Split Rock Golf Course - Bronx, NY

Spook Rock GC - Rockland County, NY

Bethpage Red - Farmindale, NY


... does Knoll West qualify? i dont remember what greens fees are

[Kevin Pallier]

My home club = Wollongong GC

[Gib_Papazian]

To me, the working definition of "Bread and Butter Golf" is epitomized in courses like Los Positas in Livermore. The body of work by Bob Graves and his associates (Neal Meagher was one) are all remarkably consistent - and invariably enjoyable to play. Pascuzzo goes off the deep end here and there, but I have never walked off one of their layouts with the kind of visceral anger at having wasted four hours of my life reserved for some Nicklaus courses like Coyote Creek.

A round on a Graves course is like a visit to kindly Uncle Bob's house, where the chairs are comfortable but not fancy, and although the wallpaper looks a little peeled and sun bleached, everything in the decor works pretty well together. The television is not a flat screen, but the 49er jerseys are still red and the grass looks green and the though the beer is not imported, it is still cold and plentiful.

Does he have a "signature design?" Maybe La Purisima, but he more likely would like to be remembered for Sea Ranch which - like the man himself - is friendly and charming, but deceptively clever.  

http://www.worldgolf.com/golf-architects/robert-muir-graves.html
  

[Walter Bart]

  My Bread & Butter would be Far Corner GC in W. Boxford, Ma, about 25 miles North of Boston.
  My criteria include a "good challenge " - 130 slope at 6700 yds, Woodsy New England layout with lots of real elevation changes,
  No houses ( not for you who love Florida golf), a number of wonderful holes - #2 ,5 ,8 and 14 come to mind, great pricing ( around $35 for 18 ) , family run -( Bill Flynn)  and a small bar and patio.  The par 3 #8 is 230yds. or so from the tips to an elevated green surrounded by a pond with a tall tree along the left side. The greens sometimes do not live up to expectation, but they try to stay open during part of  the winter, so that tends to  takes a toll.

        I do not know who the architect was. Think it was built in the 60's.  I doubt it has been mentioned here before.

[Brad Tufts]

AAHHHHH...Far Corner!

Not one of my faves, and they have lots of tournaments too so it's a bit maddening.  I will agree that it has some good holes like 2, 10, 11, and 17....5 and 14 get the press, but they are too penal for my tastes.

I will contribute a NH/VT version:

NH....Kingswood, Maplewood, Bethlehem, and definately the Balsams.

VT...NESHOBE!!!...Lake St. Catherine, Kwiniaska, Ralph Myhre

Some of the above have a GCA-favored pedigree, some do not...but they ALL will give you a great afternoon.

I will leave Maine for Michael "ask me" Moore....!

[mike_beene]

Santa Fe Country Club.

[Kevin Cahoon]

Cape Cod Country Club in Falmouth, MA fits the definition for me. There are a number of nice green complexes that require strategy from the tee.

[Mike Demetriou]

First of all, this is indeed a compelling thread.  So much of what I read here makes me feel disconnected from the golfers I actually play much of my golf with. It is almost as though I speak one language with them, and then I READ another here with you people. This thread helps to ground what we discuss here everyday.

The genesis for this thread was an e-mail my wife received from an Amish baker letting her know that a fresh batch of salt-rising bread came out of his oven this morning.  

Second, your wife got an email from an Amish baker? To quote Bill and Ted, "that is AWESOME!"

Finally, while I don't know if I would drop everything to play there, I couldn't agree more with the discussion of Glencoe earlier. I would add that the par 4 13th at Glencoe is a terrific hole that makes me forget I'm playing a muni... Bread and butter indeed.

[Chris DeNigris]

Red might be a little too good to fall into the B&B category...maybe the Blue?

How about Tain? Not very spectacular but solid...

[Andrew Mitchell]

Sean

Have you played the small course called Warkworth Golf Course in the North East near Morpeth & Alnwick (Northumberland Coast)? It was designed and built in 1891 at the same time as The City of Newcastle Course.
See link  http://www.warkworthgolfclub.com/Course.html . It is a 9 hole courses, on my list to play when I can and have has some interesting comments. £15 per round £20 at weekends.

Melvyn

Melvyn
I stopped in Warkworth when on holiday with my wife last October.  My "golf day pass" was spent at Goswick (also qualifies as a bread & butter course but perhaps superior bread!) with Mark Pearce.  However the walk to the beach at Warkworth took you past the 1st green and 2nd tee and what you could see made me think there was a good basic links course there. 

[PCCraig]

Finally, while I don't know if I would drop everything to play there, I couldn't agree more with the discussion of Glencoe earlier. I would add that the par 4 13th at Glencoe is a terrific hole that makes me forget I'm playing a muni... Bread and butter indeed.

Mike-

As I read it originally "bread and butter" courses aren't ones that you go way out of your way for, it would be like going to a far away restaurant to try their bread and butter...regardless of what the restaurant's main course is. 

Another one around Chicago that I thought of could be Ravisloe. Now that's its running as a lean mean public golf machine I think it could qualify under this thread. Some very good holes, nothing that really POPS out at you, but nothing that would spoil your day (or meal).

[Tom Yost]

Always interesting to see the range of flavor on this topic (as is with most of GCA!).  For some, bread and butter is a slice of Wonder bread and some margarine, while others tend toward the freshly baked baguette and organic butter.  Whatever the palate, bread and butter still has to be tasty to be satisfying.  I mean...  stale bread or moldy butter won't fit the bill.

Dobson Ranch - Mesa AZ
Weatherwax - Middletown, OH

[Robert Emmons]

I would sugest Dev Emmet courses such as:

Eisenhaur Park red
Farmington
Huntington
Leewood
Nassau
Pelham
St. Georges
Wee Burn

Members love them and never leave. Solid, interesting,fun,challanging golf....RHE

[Ronald Montesano]

Good call on Ralph Mhyre...good but not great...

In western New York we have crappy B&B courses (Audubon, Brighton, Grover Cleveland) and worthwhile B&B courses (Sheridan, Elma Meadows, Byrncliff)

--Ron M.

[Jimmy Chandler]

Glenn Dale Golf Club outside the beltway near Bowie, MD.

Shenandoah Valley Golf Club in Front Royal VA.

Poolesville Golf Club, Poolesville MD.

Meadows Farms Golf Club, Locust Grove, VA.

Four of the golfiest, most "bread and butter" courses I know.

Roger --

For the DC area, I couldn't agree more with your first two choices.  I've recommended both courses in the forums before.

I haven't played Poolesville, so no comment.  But are your serious about Meadows Farms? I haven't played there in many years, but all I remember is a gimmicky course.  That was long before I had been educated about GCA on this site though .

Also in the DC area, I would add Twin Lakes in Clifton, VA, my home course.  A 36-hole muni, the Oaks course is a solid challenge with some very interesting holes.

Jimmy

[Jud_T]

Pat,

Totally agree on Ravisloe.  Really fun Ross course with a nice renovation by Esler.  Maybe not challenging enough for big-hitting single digit players, but a boatload of fun for the rest of us....IMHO the best public course for the money in the metro area....

[George Freeman]

Pat,

Totally agree on Ravisloe.  Really fun Ross course with a nice renovation by Esler.  Maybe not challenging enough for big-hitting single digit players, but a boatload of fun for the rest of us....IMHO the best public course for the money in the metro area....

I also agree with this.  This the only course in Chicagoland that I revisited regularly last year.  The course is fun with some really good holes, and I think there is more to the design than what initially is noticed.  And with arguably the best twilight deals in Chicagoland, it's a no brainer regular for me.