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Mike Sweeney


RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Erin Hills Update
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2010, 03:34:52 PM »
Thanks for that link Mike.  A gentleman e-mailed me this morning who is a lurker.  He was inquiring if there were any threads on EH lately, and pointed out this other Wisconsin Golf Association Magazine article:

http://www.bluetoad.com/publication/?i=30005&pre=1

I tried to use the search function to find the other recent threads, but it never seems to work for me.  >:(

At any rate, EH has already accumulated a compelling story.  I recently read "Dream Golf- the making of Bandon dunes" by Godwin, and it is an interesting comparative. 

Personally, I believe that as a golf course, EH will still evolve into a worthy venue and end up hosting some prestigious events.  But, it is difficult to see the man and his dream not reach the goal intact as the vision was conceived.  To me it is a strong indication of how many serendipitous events and personalities have to come together for such a project to make it intact.  There is the visionary developer, the architect and construction entitiy, the promoters, and bean counters to project the correct number assumptions, and countless details to be managed.  Previous developer success and the economic odds are all stacked up against the visionary, unfortunately.  :-\ :'(
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Erin Hills Update
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2010, 03:39:07 PM »
...
I tried to use the search function to find the other recent threads, but it never seems to work for me.  >:(
...

If you search while in a thread, it only searches that thread, and "never seems to work."
If you search from the Discussion Group page, it will search all threads and work quite well.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Erin Hills Update
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2010, 03:55:30 PM »
Couple of very interesting quotes in the article:

"...we made a number of what I would describe as subtle changes to green complexes and green surrounds so that on a number of holes on the golf course approach shots can be played on the ground now as opposed to just flying the ball in."

"There will almost certainly be an additional golf course out there..."
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Erin Hills Update
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2010, 03:57:30 PM »
walking only out there, which is what he said it will be, could lead to some REALLY long rounds
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

jonathan_becker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Erin Hills Update
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2010, 03:58:26 PM »
Thanks for the link Mike.

I hope everything works out for EH because the property is too good to not have a great course.  I've played it every year since its inception and every year it's been different but always lots of fun.  

I wonder what bunkers they are going to take out (or add) this time around?  For my taste, I thought the new bunkering for 2009 was a little excessive on #4 and to the left of #16.  Also, I can't wait to see what they've done to #10 now that it's going to be a par 4.


Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Erin Hills Update
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2010, 04:02:05 PM »
Paul,

Agreed, however I like the fact that he's essentially doing it to protect the fescue playing surface....
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Tim Book

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Erin Hills Update
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2010, 04:05:17 PM »
I was in Kohler this past summer and strongly considered traveling down for the day to check out EH.  In the end we decided that it would be better to stay and play at the resort.  After reading this I am disappointed I never saw the course in its original configuration.  Hopefully some time will pass and allow those with a fresh perspective to more subtly navigate the course down its intended path.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Erin Hills Update
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2010, 04:09:57 PM »
walking only out there, which is what he said it will be, could lead to some REALLY long rounds

I visited there in 2008, ironically during a USGA Mid-am outing, and was blown away by the place and the property.
The changes were being discussed and frankly I thought they just weren't needed.
It pains me to hear how off track the place has gotten from the original model-and it pains me to hear the dollars spent and the dollars which will be spent to recover/renovate the place.
It also scares me to see how it all happened so quickly.
I had lunch with Mr. Lang and he was truly a gentleman, but you could sense the urgency in his voice as he was actively looking for a partner at that time.

I think Whitten had it right-a shame to see someone put that much effort in and lose not only money, but much of the uniqueness and naturalness of the course.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Erin Hills Update
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2010, 04:17:34 PM »
Paul,

Agreed, however I like the fact that he's essentially doing it to protect the fescue playing surface....

of course i have no problem with that Jud...i was just thinking about some of those LONG green -to-tee walks....like the one on the front 9 last year, from 4-5, if i remember correctly...i couldnt even FIND the next tee, my playing partners who were riding had to collect me and take me there!

199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Erin Hills Update
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2010, 04:20:25 PM »
I agree that it's not the easiest walk around....Some pretty good hills out there as well....
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Erin Hills Update
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2010, 04:40:22 PM »
How about this quote;

"Mike said, and I quote, 'We only award an Amateur where we plan on bringing the Open,' " says Lang.

Tell that to Cog Hill (circa 1997)  ::)


It's also scary the USGA "fell in love" with Erin Hills after riding in cars for the back nine of their first round. Were they looking at the course or scouting out space for corporate tents????  ::)
H.P.S.

JohnV

Re: Erin Hills Update
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2010, 04:51:24 PM »
Pat,

None of the US Am sites from 1983-1998 with the exception of Merion (1989) have gotten US Opens yet since they hosted and many of them were never considered.  Neither have the sites from 2000-2002, 2006 and 2009 (Southern Hills may still get one though) .  So it is hardly true that they only award an Amateur where they plan on bringing an Open.  I'm sure Mike is aware of this and didn't use words that were that strong.  Many of these were being considered, but there is no guarantee that getting an amateur means getting an open.

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Erin Hills Update
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2010, 05:04:07 PM »
I have not visited, but, that story has to be one of the saddest story's ever. The fact that Lang was/is not a golfer might be the saddest part of it all.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Erin Hills Update
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2010, 05:18:37 PM »
Pat,

None of the US Am sites from 1983-1998 with the exception of Merion (1989) have gotten US Opens yet since they hosted and many of them were never considered.  Neither have the sites from 2000-2002, 2006 and 2009 (Southern Hills may still get one though) .  So it is hardly true that they only award an Amateur where they plan on bringing an Open.  I'm sure Mike is aware of this and didn't use words that were that strong.  Many of these were being considered, but there is no guarantee that getting an amateur means getting an open.

I understand John, I used the quote to show just how far off the communication between Lang and the USGA really was/is.

That being said I'm not sure the USGA has handled the situation perfectly...
H.P.S.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Erin Hills Update
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2010, 05:40:56 PM »
While the link is perhaps the most comprehensive story written so far on ERin Hills, including many local and state publication 'fluff pieces', I wonder if writer Ginella was able to use the GCA.com search function to review the many threads and commentary of Erin Hills that has been posted since before the ground was even turned.  We had photos posted where Mr Lang had mowed projected FWs in the native grasses.  We had many construction photos and threads.  We had threads during intial soft openings.  We really hashed it to death.  And, all those times there were significant debates and controversies.  I was personally told by well respected people that there were i"ssues", even prior to completion.  I was equally told how completely marvelous it all was.  Upon finally playing it, I saw the 'issues' and can only imagine how many more were just under the surface, many touched on by this article. 

There seems to be plenty of blame to go around for this misfire of a project.  I think that the article doesn't and maybe can't get at some of the personalities nor call some of them out for things that are even stated in the article.  At the end of the day, probably only Mr Lang, the archies and constructors, and money entities know all.  Maybe even they don't know the whole picture because it was 'what we have here is a' collective 'failure to communicate'.  None of this speculation and second guessing (certainly myself included) eases the pain of a dreamers vision, dashed.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Erin Hills Update
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2010, 05:52:17 PM »
I think the whole spectre of this series of decisions and events about building the 'field of dreams' golf course resonates because most everyone on this GCA.com forum have those thoughts and feelings.  Some have even dabbled with or did build it, in the whole arena of a golf course development.  I know I did to varyng degrees a couple of times, and thank my lucky stars I never got so deep into the weeds of it.  Being the world class pessimist I am  always allowed me to find a way to rationalise a retreat.  It resonates with me because I know I could have been a fellow totally sucked in, at an advanced age, and not enough hor$epower to recover.  I truly hope Mr Lang has the resources and accumen to get into a comfortable mode without being financially ruined. 

On the other hand, as they say, 'no gut$-no glory'.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Keith Buntrock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Erin Hills Update
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2010, 08:04:05 PM »
"Lang didn't see a better use for his property than a low-key course for locals, his original vision just nine holes. Tom Doak, in the mid-1990s before he was the renowned Tom Doak (and before Lang owned the land), was asked to make some preliminary plans for a course. But in 2000 Lang met architect Mike Hurdzan, and they hit it off."

I wonder if Tom Doak can add anything to that paragraph...

JohnV

Re: Erin Hills Update
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2010, 10:01:59 PM »
That being said I'm not sure the USGA has handled the situation perfectly...

Probably not.

Scott Weersing

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Erin Hills Update
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2010, 11:25:16 AM »
http://www.golfdigest.com/golfworld/2010/01/golf_erin_hills_ginella_0119?currentPage=1

Interesting update.

When I read this article, I thought, who does Lang remind me of? He kind of reminds me of Donald Trump and what he did with Ocean Trails, now Trump National Palos Verdes. Lang took a great course and made it in a regular course.

Another thing I noticed, How many months has Erin Hills been open in the past two years? They closed in September of 2008. Opened for July, August, September of 2009 with reduced green fees. And now will open in August of 2010. Erin Hills will have to get money from the USGA for course maintenance as there is little chance of greens fees reaching the level required for the maintenance budget.

I wonder how many months they will be open before the US Amatuer in 2011?

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Erin Hills Update
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2010, 11:28:54 AM »
Scott,

It doesn't seem like turning a profit is a big issue for the new owner....I think he may very well be willing to run it at a loss. 
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Steve_Roths

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Erin Hills Update
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2010, 11:31:18 AM »
I am still scratching my head over people thinking this was a great course.  I really can't say it was great.  I would give a Doak 6.  The land was amazing but Hurz& Co. had no clue what they were doing.

Doak, Hanse, Coore, etc. would have created an easy 9 and the Open would be there.  It is just sad to see.

You have to wonder what people are thinking when they have a fantastic piece of land and then pick someone that hasn't put any course on the W100 lists.  

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Erin Hills Update
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2010, 11:33:52 AM »
At least it sounds like they're finally moving in the right direction....
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Erin Hills Update
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2010, 11:35:36 AM »
i feel for Mr. Lang.....i talked to him when i visited last year, and he is a very nice man who had great passion for his course
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Paul Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Erin Hills Update
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2010, 11:41:59 AM »
Does anyone have the upated link?  I went to the link and got this message:

Take a Mulligan
You've requested a GolfDigest.com page that doesn't exist.
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com