Notable Public Access Course List

[Craig Van Egmond]

Bob,

    Shuksan was designed by Rick Dvorak circa 1994.  The Bellingham area had some pretty good golf for not a lot of money.

    I would add one of my faves, The Classic to the Washington list, great set of greens. A Bill Overdorf course located in Spanaway, in the greater Tacoma area.

   As for Oklahoma the Patriot course sadly is/will be a private course so that needs to be dropped. Bummer.   Also the University of Oklahoma GC is really called Jimmie Austin Golf Club.

   Here is the list...

Oklahoma                                               Architect(s)                                           Area
Chickasaw Pointe, Kingston                       Randy Heckenkemper                          Lake Texoma
Jimmie Austin GC, Norman                       Perry Maxwell/Robert Cupp                  Oklahoma City
Karsten Creek, Stillwater                       Tom Fazio                                          Stillwater
Forest Ridge, Broken Arrow                       Randy Heckenkemper                          Tulsa
Cherokee Hills, Catoosa                            Perry Maxwell/Tripp Davis                         Tulsa

http://www.pointe-vista.com/index.cfm?id=4
http://www.ougolfclub.com/golf/proto/jimmieaustingolf/
http://www.karstencreek.net/
http://www.forestridge.com/golf/golf.asp
http://www.hardrockcasinotulsa.com/golf/Pages/default.aspx

[Buck Wolter]

A few St Louis area adds to consider
Gateway National, Keith Foster -- Madison Illinois (St Louis Area)
Far Oaks, Bob and Kye Goalby -- Farview Heights Illinois (St Louis Area)
Normandie Golf Club, Robert Foulis -- St Louis, MO

[Cory Lewis]

I played a course last week in Tennessee that should make the list, Riverislands in Kodak.  Arthur Hills course with several holes on the river, I think Doak gave it a 5 in the confidential guide.

[John Moore II]

Guess I forgot to update my other post about NC golf courses. I have a few that can be played, depending on where you are and don't want to travel too far.

Bryan Park (Champions or Players) in Greensboro-Rees Jones: good courses, fun to play, don't drive more than an hour though
Oak Hollow in High Point-Pete Dye: course can be walked for like $18, probably the best value I've ever played
Wilmington GC in Wilmington-Donald Ross: Good if in the area, probably not worth a long drive
Currituck Club or Nags Head Golf Links on the northern outer banks-Rees Jones designed Currituck, not sure who did Nags Head. Good places to play if on the banks.

[Doug Ralston]

Doug,
If you give me the names of the Kentucky courses you mentioned I will gladly add them.

Are you just going to add them, or do you consider in-state rebuttals?   

Seriously, I think the KY courses that Doug will recommend are comparable to a lot of others listed and are priced quite reasonably.  We disagree somewhat on how good some are architecturally, but seems that isn't the principle focus of the list.

Haven't seen this thread for a while.

In Kentucky, you still need Dale Hollow Lake and Hidden Cove on the Park Trail. I swear I do not see why Quail Chase keeps showing up .... just my opinion.

I hope you add Poplar Grove in Virginia.

I also hope 'The Tennessean' gets some upkeep, this is a really sweet layout by Keith Foster [Havester]. If conditioned, I can't think what public in TN would exceed it.

Doug

[Brian Freeman]

I played a course last week in Tennessee that should make the list, Riverislands in Kodak.  Arthur Hills course with several holes on the river, I think Doak gave it a 5 in the confidential guide.

Second for River Islands - fun course and a little quirky.  Holes near the river and on the islands are pretty great, the others, fairly average.

Edit to add: there's nothing else in the Knoxville area on the list and based off my time at UT, there really shouldn't be.  River Islands I would say is definitely skewed to the GCA crowd since like it or not, it's a unique piece of land and I think an interesting case study from a GCA perspective that maximizes the use of the property.

[Justin Harvey]

Washington State:

Avalon: Robert Muir Graves  Mount Vernon

Some might not agree but West Seattle: H. Chandler Egan

Oregon:

Salishan Gleneden Beach redesign Peter Jacobsen

[Richard Choi]

Justin, West Seattle is already on the list (check the page 1). I would not agree that Avalon belongs.

[Justin Harvey]

Justin, West Seattle is already on the list (check the page 1). I would not agree that Avalon belongs.

Can't believe i missed it. I think Avalon is better than Desert Canyon. That might be a little biased I played community college golf there. What don't you like about the North/South course at Avalon?

[Richard Choi]

There is nothing "wrong" per se, but there isn't anything of note either. To me, it reminds me of number of swamp courses in Florida and Southeast. There is really nothing unique about its architecture at all other than the fact that it is a Florida style course in middle of NW.

Desert Canyon's bold elevation changes and almost carnival like green features are certainly something that a typical GCA'er would enjoy.

[Mac Plumart]

This flat out needs to be a sticky topic or an In my Opinion piece or something of permenant status for quick and easy review.

How do we do something like that?

Great thread Wyatt!!!!  

[Will MacEwen]

Justin, West Seattle is already on the list (check the page 1). I would not agree that Avalon belongs.

Can't believe i missed it. I think Avalon is better than Desert Canyon. That might be a little biased I played community college golf there. What don't you like about the North/South course at Avalon?

I prefer Lake Padden to Avalon.

Avalon has the worst drainage of any course I have ever played (or it did in the late 90s when I played it).

[Craig Van Egmond]

Sorry to pile on Justin, but Avalon does not belong on the list and no way is it better than Desert Canyon.

And for the record The Patriot Course is in Owasso not Bixby Oklahoma.

[Tony Weiler]

Is there anything notable around St. Louis? 

[Sean_A]

This flat out needs to be a sticky topic or an In my Opinion piece or something of permenant status for quick and easy review.

How do we do something like that?

Great thread Wyatt!!!!  

Mac

This thread and many more are preserved.  www.delicious.com/golfclubatlas  Though I have no idea how to find stuff on that site!

Ciao

[Wyatt Halliday]

I will continue to try and update the listings as time allows. Unfortunately, I'm running into thread space issues for two of the state blocks. Once I get the work around in place, I will include the latest suggestions. Thanks to all for participating in this thread.

[J Sadowsky]

I don't agree with some of the additions or removals, and I haven't read the thread whole, but is there a reason Montauk isn't on the list? 

[Mike Bowline]

I prefer Lake Padden to Avalon.

Avalon has the worst drainage of any course I have ever played (or it did in the late 90s when I played it).
[/quote]

The poor drainage affects turf quality in the low areas. I believe the drainage has improved as a result of some minor corrections (french drains, no re-grading or bunker work). However, after a rain, it is unplayable even after the drainage improvements.

[Bill Boonn]

I've taken this fantastic list that Wyatt has put together and uploaded it to Office Live.  I typically prefer Google Docs for these types of things but Office Live will let you easily filter and sort the results.  So if you quickly want a list of all the Coore/Crenshaw courses on this list, click the arrowhead next to Architect, click Filter, UNcheck Select All, then check Coore/Crenshaw.

Here is the link:  http://bit.ly/gcanotable 

You can get fancy with the filters as well - if you click on Text Filters and go to "Contains..." you can type in "Nicklaus" to see his courses whether he was the lone architect or if it was a collaboration.

Wyatt - I'm going to email you a link so that you can access the original file to edit as you wish.

[Richard Choi]

Nice job, Bill. Makes it much easier to slice and dice.

Here are some breakdowns:

The architect with most courses on this list

Tom Fazio	25
RTJ Jr.	24
Pete Dye	22
Donald Ross	20
Jack Nicklaus	20
RTJ Sr.	15
Hurdzan/Fry	12
Arthur Hills	12
Arnold Palmer	11
Rees Jones	9
Keith Foster	9
John Harbottle	9
Tom Doak	8
Jeff Brauer	8
Coore/Crenshaw	8
Weiskopf/Morrish	7
Mike Strantz	6
RTJ Trail	5
Roger Rulewich	5
John Fought	5
Ken Kavanaugh	5
Jim Engh	5
Dick Nugent	4
N/A	4
Jerry Pate	4
Greg Norman	4
Steve Smyers	4
Brian Silva	4
Gil Hanse	4
Michael Hurdzan	4
William Bell	4

[Richard Choi]

Ranked by State. Surprising to see Colorado with so many on the list...

California	32
Colorado	27
Arizona	27
Michigan	26
Texas	25
Oregon	19
Pennsylvania	18
Florida	18
South Carolina	16
Hawaii	16
Ohio	16
Virginia	15
Minnesota	15
Washington	14
Illinois	14
North Carolina	14
Massachusetts	13
Indiana	13
New York	13
Maryland	13
Nevada	11
Wisconsin	11
New Jersey	11
New Mexico	10
Louisiana	10
Georgia	10
Alabama	10
Tennessee	9
Utah	9
Iowa	9
Kansas	8
Connecticut	7
Kentucky	7
Mississippi	7
Arkansas	6
South Dakota	6
Montana	6
Maine	6
Oklahoma	5
Alaska	5
Vermont	5
West Virginia	5
Wyoming	5
Idaho	5
Delaware	5
New Hampshire	5
North Dakota	4
Nebraska	4
Missouri	4
Rhode Island	3

[Scott Szabo]

Ranked by State. Surprising to see Colorado with so many on the list...

California	32
Colorado	27
Arizona	27
Michigan	26
Texas	25
Oregon	19
Pennsylvania	18
Florida	18
South Carolina	16
Hawaii	16
Ohio	16
Virginia	15
Minnesota	15
Washington	14
Illinois	14
North Carolina	14
Massachusetts	13
Indiana	13
New York	13
Maryland	13
Nevada	11
Wisconsin	11
New Jersey	11
New Mexico	10
Louisiana	10
Georgia	10
Alabama	10
Tennessee	9
Utah	9
Iowa	9
Kansas	8
Connecticut	7
Kentucky	7
Mississippi	7
Arkansas	6
South Dakota	6
Montana	6
Maine	6
Oklahoma	5
Alaska	5
Vermont	5
West Virginia	5
Wyoming	5
Idaho	5
Delaware	5
New Hampshire	5
North Dakota	4
Nebraska	4
Missouri	4
Rhode Island	3

Curious why you say that it's surprising to see Colorado with so many on the list?

[Richard Choi]

Curious why you say that it's surprising to see Colorado with so many on the list?

Because California, Arizona, Oregon, Florida, South Carolina, and Michigan are well known vacation spots for golf and you expect them to have a high number of notable public courses. You don't usually mention Colorado in the same grouping.

[Scott Szabo]

Curious why you say that it's surprising to see Colorado with so many on the list?

Because California, Arizona, Oregon, Florida, South Carolina, and Michigan are well known vacation spots for golf and you expect them to have a high number of notable public courses. You don't usually mention Colorado in the same grouping.

The same could be said of the Rocky Mountains here in Colorado, although it is on a much more limited basis due to the snow. 

You need to plan a few extra days next time you are out my way and can see more of what we have to offer on the public side.  Numerous courses along the front range and the mountain areas.  Although I'll concede they won't hold a candle to Ballyneal..

[J Sadowsky]

Ranked by State. Surprising to see Colorado with so many on the list...

California	32
Colorado	27
Arizona	27
Michigan	26
Texas	25
Oregon	19
Pennsylvania	18
Florida	18
South Carolina	16
Hawaii	16
Ohio	16
Virginia	15
Minnesota	15
Washington	14
Illinois	14
North Carolina	14
Massachusetts	13
Indiana	13
New York	13
Maryland	13
Nevada	11
Wisconsin	11
New Jersey	11
New Mexico	10
Louisiana	10
Georgia	10
Alabama	10
Tennessee	9
Utah	9
Iowa	9
Kansas	8
Connecticut	7
Kentucky	7
Mississippi	7
Arkansas	6
South Dakota	6
Montana	6
Maine	6
Oklahoma	5
Alaska	5
Vermont	5
West Virginia	5
Wyoming	5
Idaho	5
Delaware	5
New Hampshire	5
North Dakota	4
Nebraska	4
Missouri	4
Rhode Island	3

Given the flaws in any statistical analysis, most likely because people who play golf in Colorado are disproportionately contributing to the list.  That and the resort factor.

Curious why you say that it's surprising to see Colorado with so many on the list?