Notable Public Access Course List

[Kevin Lynch]

The people on the Western half of New York State are feeling a little under represented here.  While those in Buffalo and Rochester recognize the greatness of our NYC area offerings, we humbly offer the following for consideration.

I’ll leave it for others to determine if it meets the “notable” criteria for this list, but these would give some representation.

Rochester Area:

Ravenwood Golf Club, Victor, NY; Robin Nelson Design; (hosted NYS Amateur and did receive #5 “Best New Public in US” from Golf Digest**)    ** - Insert your own opinion of “Lists” here

Greystone Golf Club, Walworth, NY; Craig Schreiner Design;  Reclaimed Mine that features a number of dramatic elevation changes with a good mix of holes.


Buffalo Area:

It’s difficult for me to assess which are “notable” in my hometown, since many of the publics here seem to have a love/hate relationship among the residents.  As such, I’ll punt for someone else to chime in.

When I have people in from out-of-town, I like to take them to Byrncliff Resort.  The conditioning isn’t spectacular, but the extreme changes in elevation throughout the course make it interesting for out-of-towners.

Even further West of Buffalo would be:

Peak n’ Peak – Upper Course, Findley Lake, NY (close to PA Border);  John Exley Design  (Hosted Nationwide Tour Event from 2002-2007 until it declined to host when Tour shifted dates).

[Richard Choi]

Huck, I think the criteria is quite simple (at least from my point of view).

What course would you recommend if someone here posted a thread named "what course should I play in XXXX?" Any course that you would highly recommend to a fellow GCA'er belongs on this list in my opinion.

[Rick Sides]

Blue Heron Pines East in New Jersey no longer exist   It is now sitting being over grown by weeds because houses were suppose to be built there.

[Tom Huckaby]

Huck, I think the criteria is quite simple (at least from my point of view).

What course would you recommend if someone here posted a thread named "what course should I play in XXXX?" Any course that you would highly recommend to a fellow GCA'er belongs on this list in my opinion.

Hmmmmmmmm
several courses on his list as is would not be "highly recommended"... and the list I'd give to GCAers (beardpullers all of you) would be very different from a list I'd give to real-world golfers.....

Thus I remain confused.

So I shall bow out.

[Richard Choi]

OK, may be not "highly" recommended

But definitely a course you would list if somebody asked you which course to play in that area.

[Tom Huckaby]

OK, may be not "highly" recommended

But definitely a course you would list if somebody asked you which course to play in that area.

That helps a little... but is it for GCAers, or real-world golfers?  I am not kidding, it's two very different lists as I see it.

[Richard Choi]

I really don't like speaking for Wyatt since I didn't start this thread, but I would hope this list is for GCA'ers. It is on this board and will be read primarily by us.

[John Mayhugh]

I'm with Tom on this.  I think the list depends on the audience.  I might recommend Santa Anita to a GCA person, but have non-architecture geek friends who would be seriously pissed off if I sent them there.  What Wyatt's trying to do is admirable, but I think really complex.

Glad to offer feedback on Kentucky and other courses I've seen, but some clarity on scope is needed.  Richard, if you read Wyatt's original post, it seems the audience he created the original list for is NOT our group.


Tony Weiler,
I don't agree with you on Sunridge Canyon.  I think it's a pretty good course.  When you say the design isn't very good and the layout is lacking, I'm not sure what you mean?  What aspects of the design?  There are too many houses on the course, but that's hardly rare in the area. It's been a few years since I played there, but I liked it as well as either Grayhawk course, Boulders, We-ko-pa Cholla, and so on.  I thought the green complexes there were pretty solid.

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

Two California (Bay Area) courses to add:

San Geronimo GC
Presidio GC

Both should be played in the summer - on the same day preferably (San G in the AM; Presidio in the PM) so one can experience the full range of golf weather in the Bay Area.

[Pete_Pittock]

Wyatt
Oregon
Langdon Farms               Cupp/Fought   Wilsonville     Portland area
Heron Lakes-Great Blue   RTJ II               Portland        Portland
Centennial                       Fought            Medford        Medford

Clarification
Reserve Vineyards          Fought (1st-15th of mo.)  Aloha Portland
                                      Cupp (16th-end of mo.)   Aloha  Portland

[Cliff Hamm]

Rhode Island - delete Exeter and Winnapaug

Massachusetts - add Captains (Cornish and Silva)- Brewster;

Connecticut - add Shennecossett (Ross) - Groton

[JohnV]

Pumpkin Ridge is in North Plains.  The mailing address is Corneilius, but that town is really about 5-10 miles south of the course.

Garland, the magically appearing creeks are why it is called Ghost Creek.

[Wyatt Halliday]

Doug,

If you give me the names of the Kentucky courses you mentioned I will gladly add them.

Trey,
Thanks for the heads up.

John Spaulding,
Would it really take 5 hours to complete a mission at a place called Javier's?
Your change submittals are duly noted.

Garland,
Thanks for the heads up on Egan. I agree that the "old places" need more representation which is part of the reason for this exercise. However, I disagree regarding Pumpkin Ridge. It will remain.

Sam,
That statement was purely in jest. I will say this about Newport Dunes, the attached deck at the front of the pro shop/double wide trailer is a fantastic place for devouring pitchers of margaritas. There's something about Calypso music that encourages excessive drinking.

Chris,
Thanks for the verification, I had no idea that Cleveland had two Stanley Thompson courses. Again, this is precisely the type of information I'm attempting to assemble here. I will look into Avalon.

Tom,
There is no standard other that promoting discussion of "notable" public courses. As with much of what's discussed on this site, it's completely arbitrary. Some of this list was made prior to my GCA awakening and done so through visits, magazine lists, websites, etc. The best of the best on the public side are well documented here whether they are passionately debated (Black Mesa), or universally praised (Bandon). What I was hoping to flesh out were places that some of us may not have heard of (Jeffersonville as a personal example), or stumbling upon a option to play a Stanley Thompson course in Cleveland. Finally, I hoped this may eventually evolve into a quick reference link when looking for decent places to play around the country. I do not, and never will intend for it to be a GCA gold standard because we live and breath that abstract.

Jason,
Thanks for the detailed analysis and additions for Iowa, Arizona, and Minnesota.

[Kalen Braley]

Wyatt,

As a Utah representative, I would agree with the courses you listed and also add these three.

1)  South Mountain, Draper, UT
2)  Soldier Hollow - Gold, Midway, UT
3)  Mt. Ogden - Ogden, UT - This is a fun and quirky course off the beaten path...but a blast to play.  Course review coming soon.

[John Mayhugh]

Doug,
If you give me the names of the Kentucky courses you mentioned I will gladly add them.

Are you just going to add them, or do you consider in-state rebuttals?   

Seriously, I think the KY courses that Doug will recommend are comparable to a lot of others listed and are priced quite reasonably.  We disagree somewhat on how good some are architecturally, but seems that isn't the principle focus of the list.

[Tim Pitner]

Wyatt,

Saddleback Ridge in Solon, Iowa (near Iowa City, home of the Orange Bowl champion University of Iowa Hawkeyes) is a hidden gem of a hidden gem. 

[Wyatt Halliday]

Updated 6:01 Eastern.

More updates still to apply. Thanks to everyone who has submitted courses and opinions, and please keep em' coming!

[Sean_A]

A few from Michigan

Brae Burn in Plymouth by W Reed (early 20s)
Leslie Park in Ann Arbor by L Packard/A Hills (late 60s)
Faulkwood Shores in Howell   I don't know the designer - I am guessing built in late 60s
Hunters Ridge in Howell by J Matthews (late 80s/early 90s)
Huron Hills in Ann Arbor by T Bendelow (early 20s)
New Rogell in Detroit by D Ross (1914)

One thing I will mention about the above courses is they are all under $40 to play.  

I have one heck of a lot of time for the Ann Arbor munis because they truly exist for the betterment of the community.  Below is a tidbit about Huron Hills:

"Huron Hills Golf Course is among the oldest courses in Ann Arbor. This historic par 67 course was designed by Thomas Bendelow and opened in 1922. This scenic course with it's vast topography and mature trees offers magnificent views of the Huron River from some of the highest points in Ann Arbor.  This par 67 "old school" style course is located at Huron Parkway and Huron River Drive adjacent to Gallup Park. Huron Hills annually hosts the Herb Fowler Memorial Junior Amateur Championship. It also is home of several Parent - Child specials, where kids can play free with a paid adult and the new 7-hole Wee-Tee course for kids and beginners."

Below are links to the websites of the Ann Arbor munis.  I include these links because these courses are examples of what munis can be and go a long way to explaining why munis shouldn't necessarily compete on equal terms with privately owned publics.  Please go to the green fee sections for a flavour of what I am talking about.

http://www.a2gov.org/government/communityservices/ParksandRecreation/Golf/Leslie/Pages/default.aspx

http://www.a2gov.org/government/communityservices/ParksandRecreation/Golf/Huron/Pages/default.aspx

The city does a good job of organizing a champ series.  I have played in the Amateur many times and even won the 4th flight(?) one year.  It was very competitive as I think I shot a 78 in the last round to win.  The champ flight nearly always goes miles under par as a few college flat bellies invade.
Anyway, here is a link to the series.
http://www.a2gov.org/government/communityservices/ParksandRecreation/Golf/Championships/Pages/default.aspx

Ciao

[Jeff Evagues]

I'd like to nominate Champion Lakes in Ligonier, PA. It's about 5 miles north of Laurel Valley.

[Billsteele]

Chris Blakely-I too have seen Big Met in Cleveland attributed to Thompson. However, I am a bit skeptical since the Thompson Society does not list it as one of his Ohio courses. Squaw Creek was originally a Thompson but when I played it a couple of years ago it looked like it had lost much of the original Thompson touches. It was fairly mundane and felt as if it had been modernized. Sleepy Hollow though is darn good.

[Cliff Hamm]

Correction - Architects GC is listed as Phillisburg, Pennsylvania.  It is located in Phillisburg, New Jersey.

 I would also add Knoll West (Charles Banks) in Parsippany, New Jersey.

Pennsylvania - Makefield Highlands (Rick Jacobsen) - Yardley.

[Mark McKeever]

I would add Berkleigh CC, which is a White design.  One of my favorites in Kutztown, PA

Mark

[Ben Sims]

Big Tex,

You forgot Newport Dunes in Port Aransas, TX.  A buddy of mine played it and said the papsalum combined with wide open dunescape was like "Bandon in Corpus Christi".

...or something to that effect

I still need to play Newport Dunes but the idea of "Bandon in Corpus Christi" is one of the funniest things I think I have ever read.

'Twas facetious in nature.  Newport Dunes was only the third or fourth time Wyatt and I played golf together.  We should've stayed in San Antonio

It reminded me of Links at Bodega Harbour in that its advertising was a bit misleading.

[Chris_Blakely]

Chris Blakely-I too have seen Big Met in Cleveland attributed to Thompson. However, I am a bit skeptical since the Thompson Society does not list it as one of his Ohio courses. Squaw Creek was originally a Thompson but when I played it a couple of years ago it looked like it had lost much of the original Thompson touches. It was fairly mundane and felt as if it had been modernized. Sleepy Hollow though is darn good.

Bill Steele,

As far as I know, Ian Andrew found some documentation that Big Met was Thompson and built in 1926:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,27513.0/

I did not think Squaw Creek was completly devoid of character and lost all Thompson, but I played it a couple of years ago.  Be that as it may, I did not saw it should be included on the notable course list!

Chris

[Sam Morrow]

Big Tex,

You forgot Newport Dunes in Port Aransas, TX.  A buddy of mine played it and said the papsalum combined with wide open dunescape was like "Bandon in Corpus Christi".

...or something to that effect

I still need to play Newport Dunes but the idea of "Bandon in Corpus Christi" is one of the funniest things I think I have ever read.

'Twas facetious in nature.  Newport Dunes was only the third or fourth time Wyatt and I played golf together.  We should've stayed in San Antonio

It reminded me of Links at Bodega Harbour in that its advertising was a bit misleading.

The best part of Corpus is when you leave.