The Golf Course That Got Away - Yale Farm

[Jim_Kennedy]

As most of you know Roland Betts dropped his Yale Farm GC project after a 6? year try at getting it approved. Thought these might be interesting in retrospect.   








(not the final plan)

There were missteps along the way, but what really killed the project was the 'Headwaters' classification given to streams on the property and the intervention by the Attorney General of Ct.

Too bad.

 

[Tom_Doak]

Too bad?  If he had built it two years ago, he'd be out another $20 million, because he couldn't sell the memberships.

Oh, wait, there are a bunch of Wall Street bankers who are about to have the cash to join a new place in Connecticut.  Never mind.

[Jim Sweeney]

This project is probably no more than 30 minutes from Bull's Bridge- how is that course doing?

Was Yale Farms to be golf only, or with housing? Was it the golf or the housing that killed it?

Somewhat surprising because the Blumenthal family is heavily into golf in CT; one of them served on the USGA Exec. Comm.

I'm all for development of great courses, but I also know the area is quintessentially New England, which is a condition that is disappearing too quickly.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Jim,
It was the housing component that got the AG involved. He reckoned that the final plan, which didn't have any housing in it, was a sham and it was going to be circumvented in the near future, so he stepped in. Quite frankly, the commissioners in our towns are all volunteers and they can use the help at times.

Bull's Bridge seems to be going merrily along, but they've only built a very modest clubhouse and none of the proposed club cottages or as-planned clubhouse have been started. It was in exceptionally fine condition this past season.

Tom,
Roland Betts promised the high school coach that he could have his matches at YF, now he has to stick with us. 

[Jaeger Kovich]

I thought Bull's Bridge went bankrupt like 3 times already?!

[Jim_Kennedy]

It has a certain Lazarus like quality to it, and some angels from Old Saybrook.

[Tim Gavrich]

It has a certain Lazarus like quality to it, and some angels from Old Saybrook.

Yeah, I have heard that Bull's Bridge is not exactly thriving.  If the Wall Street crowd is in the market for new club memberships, it looks like South Kent, CT is a little too far from Manhattan for them.

[Jim_Kennedy]

.....and six-figures pricey.

[Garland Bayley]

Too bad?  If he had built it two years ago, he'd be out another $20 million, because he couldn't sell the memberships.

Oh, wait, there are a bunch of Wall Street bankers who are about to have the cash to join a new place in Connecticut.  Never mind.

Now that's funny! In a sick sort of way.

[Mike Sweeney]

.....and six-figures pricey.

I have to stay verrrry nice to Jim Kennedy for another winter. 

[Jim_Kennedy]

Mike,
If you do I'll start to worry. 

[cary lichtenstein]

Maybe it's a blessing in disguise and avoidied a bankruptcy

[Patrick_Mucci]

Too bad?  If he had built it two years ago, he'd be out another $20 million, because he couldn't sell the memberships.

Oh, wait, there are a bunch of Wall Street bankers who are about to have the cash to join a new place in Connecticut.  Never mind.

Tom, you're not going to begrudge Mike Keiser and Julian Robertson the profits they made in their businesses, are you ?

If a guy gets up early every day, works hard and smart for a long day and makes a lot of money for his company, shouldn't he be entitled to a percentage of the profits as a bonus ?  Especially if he had a performance contract, just like a baseball, football or basketball player ?

When we start demonizing the entepreneurial spirit along with individuals who work smart and hard, we'll never be a prosperous or great nation again, and you won't find any clients to employ your services, except for,.... maybe the government.

[W.H. Cosgrove]

Entitled to hard earned pay as long as the shareholders receive a nice dividend and Uncle Sam has every right to tax the earnings (at the personal level, not the corporate) 

They may be entitled but the Public Relations is a nightmare. 

The result will be some kind of onerous tax that should probably be 50% above 1 million and 75% above $5 million. 

"Bulls Make Money, Bears Make Money, Pigs Get Slaughtered"  Rightfully or not the bankers are looking like Pigs to the masses.  Revolutions have been started over less.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Entitled to hard earned pay as long as the shareholders receive a nice dividend and Uncle Sam has every right to tax the earnings (at the personal level, not the corporate) 

Shareholder dividends have nothing to do with contractual obligations.
When an employee has a performance contract and he achieves his targeted incentives, he's entitled to that contractual money irrespective of whether or not the shareholders receive a dividend.  Contracts that provide Incentive pay are first in line.
IE, if a baseball player gets a bonus for batting 300, and for hitting 30 Homeruns, and he meets those targeted incentives, the team does NOT have to make the playoffs in order for him to get paid his incentive compensation.

 
They may be entitled but the Public Relations is a nightmare. 

Only when being successful and making a profit is demonized.

The result will be some kind of onerous tax that should probably be 50% above 1 million and 75% above $5 million. 

That's confiscatory and will kill incentives and the entepreneurial spirit

"Bulls Make Money, Bears Make Money, Pigs Get Slaughtered" 

That's a catchy phrase that shouldn't be applied to people who work hard, work smart and fulfill their contractual obligations.
IF it was so easy, everybody would be doing it.
Tax people at those levels, and by the way, taxes are already in excess of 50 % under the current system, and the banking industry will move elsewhere, which is what the UK is starting to experience

Rightfully or not the bankers are looking like Pigs to the masses. 
Revolutions have been started over less.


Don't paint everyone with the same broad brush.
Some made bad decisions, some were WILD and RECKLESS, but, others acted in good faith and fulfilled their obligations
The masses don't have all of the information, they seem to get their information from agenda driven sound bites from the White House and the media.
Why should Hudson City be penalized ?  They NEVER took any TARP money.
Yet, you would have them paying penal, excise taxes, WHY ?

As to looking bad, how about those in government who helped create these situations those who failed at oversight and regulation ?

You have a modern day "Robin Hood" mentality in the White House and Congress, an attempt to redistribute earnings and wealth, mostly to pay for WILD and RECKLESS spending

End of rant 

[Tony Ristola]

They may be entitled but the Public Relations is a nightmare.

The sad state of things; when people are demonized (and government is involved stoking the fire) and the poison spreads through society.

.[/color]

[Jim_Kennedy]

What you guys are forgetting is that no average American really cares who's making what when they have enough to keep a roof over their heads, put food on their tables, send their kids to college, afford medical insurance, and reasonably expect that any pension plan they bought into will be there when they retire.

When they see these things being ripped away from them, when they see that they may have much less of a chance of ever getting them, and then they see people in the financial world who thought they were working at Caesar's Palace instead of Wall Street  walking away with multi million dollar bonuses, well.......this website is too clean to say what I think.

Benedict Arnold did less damage to this country than some of the people in the world of finance. 

(It's still too bad that we won't see Yale Farm GC  )

   

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jim Kennedy,

Yet, no one seems to mind that thugs/hoodlums, who carry guns illegally, who discharge concealed, unlicensed weapons
are paid $ 110,000,000.

If they weren't being paid gazillions to play sports, would they be out robbing gas stations and 7-11's ?

As to the bonuses, I don't know the intimate details, but I would suspect that employees who lost money for their firms aren't getting significant bonuses, and that employees who had their pay contractually tied to performance, who met or exceeded their contractual goals are getting paid what was contractually agreed to.

In addition, why should Ginnie Mae, Fannie Mae, Chrysler and GM be exempted ?
Why should a bank that NEVER took a dime of Tarp money have to pay a penal excise taxes to pay for the mismanagement of those companies ?

To keep this on a golf theme, it may be that Obama is going to screw more people than Tiger Woods.

The flames of Class Warfare are being fanned vigorously in D.C.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Pat,
Nobody is robbing your pension fund to pay them the 110,000,000. Stop watching sporting events, you're an enabler. 

Every elected official going to Washington is given a bellows when they arrive.  They blow hot air, smoke, and fan all sorts of flames
with them. Of course, Obama gets to screw the 2% of the population who didn't get reamed by Bush over the past 8 years. Perhaps we should give him a couple of years to see if he can climb out of the hole that the preceding bandits dug for him (and most of us). It's amazing how they kept piling it on at the end, like they didn't get enough, or perhaps they wanted to make it impossible for the inevitable democratic president to succeed? 

Anyway, I've been putting a few bucks aside for blindfolds, cigarettes, and a good Zippo. 

Golf related: There was a course built in 2001 that was less than a mile from Bett's land. No water on it, no problem.   

 

[Chris Kane]

Why should a bank that NEVER took a dime of Tarp money have to pay a penal excise taxes to pay for the mismanagement of those companies ?

They have benefited from the TARP money - they'd be out of business were it not for that program.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Chris Kane,

How would a bank that had NO toxic assets be out of business.

Are you familiar with Hudson ?  Valley National ?

Rock solid banks.

Why would they be out of business ?

Jim Kennedy.

Who controlled the Senate and House for the last 8 years ?

Who's responsible for oversight and regulation ?

Certainly not the executive branch.

Why should companies that paid back Tarp, plus interest, providing a profit for the government, have to pay a penalty tax ?

If they can target one group of companies, what will stop them from targeting others ?
And remember, some of these firms NEVER took TARP money, so why are they being penalized, and why are Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, GM, AIG and Chrysler being exempted from the tax when they took government assisstance ?

The politics of envy is clearly visible.

Do you think ANY golf project would have gotten approval in that area ?

[Chris Kane]

How would a bank that had NO toxic assets be out of business.

Very easily if the financial system they operated in collapsed, and America was in depression.

[Garland Bayley]

Patrick,

I never thought of you as the naive type before.

Tell me something. If a person is smart enough to get a job paying him huge bonuses for his investment success, don't you think he would be smart enough to only sign on when the bonus program is written in his favor? Sort of like watching the pros take free drops because a sprinkler head interfered with their stance to hit driver from 100 yards. I think you get my drift.

Say hi to your nurse for me.

[Jeff Goldman]

Patrick,

I love the phrase "fulfilled their contractual obligations".  Priceless.  Remember the Rocky Bridges line "I managed good but boy, did they play bad"?

Oh, and, what do you think of Chris Cox's leadership of the SEC and his ideas on self-policing?  (also, didn't know that Congress controlled the direction of administrative agencies whose leaders are executive appointments.  Interesting)

sorry for the sarcasm, but when these large entities can "fulfill their contractual obligations" by shorting stuff they are selling to their customers without disclosing that somewhat interesting fact, and where employment contracts are written so that compensation is based upon "expected" or assumed, rather than real, returns, with no mind given to the actual financial results, it sounds like some interesting contracts.

Jeff

[Jim_Kennedy]

Pat,
I think one look at the Bush veto record is telling, he never vetoed a bill  until 5 years into his presidency. That's a record, and you have to go back 200 years to John Quincy Adams to find another president who waited so long to use the power. It's also interesting to note that only one of his 12 vetoes came during the 6 years that Congress was controlled by Republicans. The remaining 11 all came under Democrats in the last 2 years of his time in office.

As I mentioned earlier, there was a course built very near Roland Bett's land, so near in fact that you can see his house from their drivng range.

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