[Jason Topp]

It seems to me that the "second golden age" of architecture is largely complete (beginning roughly with Sand Hills and concluding with some courses currently in process).  How do you think history will judge courses of the last 15 years compared to those of the 20's and early 30's?

I have my own thoughts but would love to hear your views.

[Melvyn Morrow]

You must be joking a second Golden Age over the last 20-30 years - are you being serious, please tell me you are joking

Melvyn

[Jason Topp]

You must be joking a second Golden Age over the last 20-30 years - are you being serious, please tell me you are joking

Melvyn

Melvyn - Nope.

I suggest you take a look at the "Architecture Timeline" section of this site to see how much terrific work has been done in the last 15 years.

[Garland Bayley]

I would suggest that the current age is hardly past adolescence and will continue until its main proponents have retired. After some time it can then be determined if it is bronze, silver, gold, or platinum.

[Jud_T]

Jason,

I think the best courses from this mini-Golden Age will hold their own against the classics and still be pretty high in the rankings in 50 years time....

[Jason Topp]

I would suggest that the current age is hardly past adolescence and will continue until its main proponents have retired. After some time it can then be determined if it is bronze, silver, gold, or platinum.

That will be interesting.  I can't imagine new courses over the next 10 years will be significantly greater in number than those built during the 30's.  It is possible that a small number of high quality courses will be built but the boom is done and the industry is dealing with residue now (see the Gold Digest article describing Fazio playing a bunch of golf these days).  

[Mac Plumart]

Garland...agreed!

Time will tell if this is a Golden Age or not. 

[Garland Bayley]

I would suggest that the current age is hardly past adolescence and will continue until its main proponents have retired. After some time it can then be determined if it is bronze, silver, gold, or platinum.

That will be interesting.  I can't imagine new courses over the next 10 years will be significantly greater in number than those built during the 30's.  It is possible that a small number of high quality courses will be built but the boom is done and the industry is dealing with residue now (see the Gold Digest article describing Fazio playing a bunch of golf these days).  

I would suggest that this is not the second great depression, and that there are areas of the world that are playing big time catch up (eastern Europe, China). I don't think the flame has gone out on the present age.

[Garland Bayley]

PS, Is Fazio playing a lot of golf a bad thing?

[Jud_T]

BUMP

[Jason Topp]

Does anyone know how the number of courses built between 1915 and 1932 compares to the courses built in the last 15 years? 

[Dale Jackson]

I can't imagine new courses over the next 10 years will be significantly greater in number than those built during the 30's.  It is possible that a small number of high quality courses will be built but the boom is done and the industry is dealing with residue now (see the Gold Digest article describing Fazio playing a bunch of golf these days). 

Jason, I have to assume you are coming at this from an American perspective.  I don't think China, Eastern Europe and other parts of the world think the boom in course construction is over.  Even the UK still has some very promising projects on the drawing boards.  Certainly North America is a mature (and overbuilt) market. 

I don't think Tom Doak sees his best work as finished, nor C & C, nor other highly regarded GCAs currently working.  As the game of golf continues to expand globally, great sites will be combined with great GCAs and the current re-emergence of great architecture will continue.

[Melvyn Morrow]

So Gold has been yet again devalued

Melvyn

[Emil Weber]

I reckon we're not talking about a golden age, but a golden movement. So far the Coore/Doak style is just a small part of whats produced today and i think this is just the start of this second golden age!

And, IMO, they have the same talent that the GA architects had, plus they are given better sites!

[Jason Topp]

I can't imagine new courses over the next 10 years will be significantly greater in number than those built during the 30's.  It is possible that a small number of high quality courses will be built but the boom is done and the industry is dealing with residue now (see the Gold Digest article describing Fazio playing a bunch of golf these days). 

Jason, I have to assume you are coming at this from an American perspective.  I don't think China, Eastern Europe and other parts of the world think the boom in course construction is over.  Even the UK still has some very promising projects on the drawing boards.  Certainly North America is a mature (and overbuilt) market. 

I don't think Tom Doak sees his best work as finished, nor C & C, nor other highly regarded GCAs currently working.  As the game of golf continues to expand globally, great sites will be combined with great GCAs and the current re-emergence of great architecture will continue.

Dale - I definitely have an American perspective.  Thus far China hasn't produced much of note as far as I know and I do not know anything about Eastern Europe.  I'm also concerned that the China building boom is a false bubble - there seem to be far more golf courses than local customers. 

[Bill_McBride]

You must be joking a second Golden Age over the last 20-30 years - are you being serious, please tell me you are joking

Melvyn

Melvyn, it's really a shame you have not been able to come to the United States to play golf, because most of the really great courses built in Jason's "Second Golden Age" have been built here.  Others have been built in Australia and New Zealand, but the predominance have been built here.

I am not aware of any wonderful courses built in the UK although many would argue for Kingsbarns and Castle Stuart.

The "Second Golden Age" courses in the US have been built in the "lie of the land" style we all appreciate.

Hope you are well.

[Jason Topp]

So Gold has been yet again devalued

Melvyn

Melvyn - I have always understood your view to be that golf in its highest form should be played over very natural land and that man should enjoy the challenge against a natural golf course that is not artificially constructed.  I respect that perspective.

However, your ideal golf course differs fundamentally from golden age courses built between WWI and the great depression.  I view the golden age as an era where architects attempted to export the best of links golf to mostly inland settings and to create a course that appears, but may not actually be, natural.  Golden age architects strove to simultaneously challenge the good player while giving the beginner a way to get around the course.  Most, if not all, of the links courses you treasure are not golden age courses.  They predated them.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Gentlemen

Its just my opinion, I just do not feel we are or have experienced a golden age, perhaps an Iron Age

Melvyn

[Garland Bayley]

Jason,

Golden age is ambiguous. Many on here have stated they believe it started with Old Tom. Now that you date it, you might actually find disagreement with your definition.

[Norbert P]

  Whatever it's called, it ain't over.  Maybe the volume won't be there but there will be some quality creations.

  But, as was astutely mentioned several times, time is the true judge.

[Ross Tuddenham]

How did it stack up?

I guess it's to early to say, but is the great architecture of today part of the mainstream?

From the books you read you get the feeling the greater majority of the golfing public were on the same side or at least the same way of thinking as the architects of the day, in the 20's and 30's.

It is not the prevailing thoughts of todays wider golfing public to look for the architecture that is on offer at the likes of sand hills or bandon.

If you ask around golf clubs it would be no surprise to find that most golfers yearned for Doral rather than ballyneal.  But in the 30's would tillinghast, MacKenzie etc have had a great deal of competition from a very different type of "superstar" architect.  today Nicklaus or Flado may be better known than doak or coore and crenshaw?


I suppose the difference may be that no one argue the first golden age was not a golden age but would some golfers point to the trent jones type courses and say that they form part of the second golden age begining in th 70's?  That is certainly not what the author meant.

Is this a golden age for aficionados but not the average golf fan?

[PCCraig]

Every era has it's great designs and I agree that time is always the best judge in weeding out the truly great courses.

What strikes me about the last 10 years or so as a design "trend" that will stick and has done more for the courses we love has been the increasing number of clubs and courses being restoring and refurbished. With less and less land available and the finances and permits so hard to come by needed to build a golf course...the ability to value and take care of what we already have is just as important in many cases.

Just my two cents on why I would consider it a "golden age."

[Norbert P]

...the ability to value and take care of what we already have is just as important in many cases.

  Excellent point !   

[Mac Plumart]

Great thread and great comments.

In all seriousness, it does appear that this last "age" built some very good courses.  I would LOVE to have Melvyn see some of them first hand and get his opinions.

Sand Hills.

Pacific Dunes.

Kiawah Ocean.

The Golf Club.

Ballyneal.

Shadow Creek.    Seriously.

And then how about Cape Kidnappers.

Mission Hills complex in China.

Anyway, you get the picture.

Would his view on non-Scottish, GB&I golf change.  Would he approve of how this Scottish game has grown throughout the world.

Then maybe visit The First Tee locations.  Wounded Warrior Golf Tournaments.  National Amputee Golf Association. etc.

What would he have to say about this stuff?

True golf?  Proabably not, but worthy golf projects?  Maybe.

[PCCraig]

Great thread and great comments.

In all seriousness, it does appear that this last "age" built some very good courses.  I would LOVE to have Melvyn see some of them first hand and get his opinions.

Sand Hills.

Pacific Dunes.

Kiawah Ocean.

The Golf Club.

Ballyneal.

Shadow Creek.    Seriously.

And then how about Cape Kidnappers.

Mission Hills complex in China.

Anyway, you get the picture.

Would his view on non-Scottish, GB&I golf change.  Would he approve of how this Scottish game has grown throughout the world.

Then maybe visit The First Tee locations.  Wounded Warrior Golf Tournaments.  National Amputee Golf Association. etc.

What would he have to say about this stuff?

True golf?  Proabably not, but worthy golf projects?  Maybe.

Why would any of the above courses not be considered "True golf??"

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