[Mike Cirba]

In the golf course archeology thread there is discussion of finding old abandoned greens, tees, and other features.  My question is; how easily recoverable are they?

Let's use a hypothetical example.  Let's say in the interest of adding distance a green was abandoned and a new one created 100 yards further down the newly extended hole and the original green is simply left to grow as fairway without ploughing it under or otherwise disturbing the original contours.

Then, let's say in ten years someone thinks better of it and wants to reclaim the original green.

What would those hypothetical restorationists be facing in terms of truly recapturing the original green?

Thanks for your feedback.

[Mike Cirba]

In reading my question, I wanted to make clear that my question is simply agronomic in nature.

I'm not talking about the political or strategic concerns...simply wanting to know if there are some things that happen to a green if it isn't treated like a green from a maintenance perspective over time (but instead as fairway in this example)  that would complicate a restoration scenario.

Would greatly appreciate hearing any feedback...thanks.

[Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG]

The simple answer is to define the old edge and mow it!

It really depends on what you want, ie keep it original, use a different grass (eg bentgrass), add drainage etc but to just reestablish it as a putting surface it would take a little time but it could be done. All you need is to slowly lower the height of cut until you get to your greens height. Regular topdressing would also be essential to help prevent scalping and to smooth the surface as the height drops. On top of that it would have to be added to the spray/fert schedule of the other greens and aerated etc as needed.

Depending on how the fairway was maintained the mowed turf may or may not be as good a quality of the existing greens but over time it will adapt (especially if its poa as (in simple terms) it becomes more greens like the lower it is mowed.)

[Mike Cirba]

Alan,

Thank you for your insight.

I would imagine that it would also hold true that this would work best with a green that is low-profile, and easily blended into the surrounding contours, as opposed to one with a four-foot high green pad elevated above the natural grade.

In the example I'm thinking of, this is indeed the case thankfully, even though we are talking hypotheticals. 

Seriously, in an ideal world, a green we are thinking of taking out of circulation is also one we are hoping to someday recover if additional land becomes available, so knowing how to properly plan and then maintain putting a green in hibernation with the idea of it being easily restorable at some future date is critically important.   Thanks again!

[Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG]

Mike,

Depending on the green, removing it is not necessarily easy. It all depends on the green site, if there is no bunkering and the green blends into the surrounds then it should be easy as there is no earthwork involved, however if there is then there are the issues of protecting the contours, adding/grading/removing soil etc. Depending on fairway grass type the rough around the green may have to be removed and resodded/seeded/plugged to match the existing fairway and then the opposite of course to return the green complex.

I guess if you're hypothetically;) thinking of removing a green with the intention to potentially reestablish it later then some extra maintenance (cultural practices) on that area probably wouldn't go astray such as aerating and topdressing etc it with the other greens, to ensure it drains etc consistently with the others when it is reopened.

My original post would still work in any situation but I was thinking more about one that was 'lost' many years ago, if you have the advantage of being the one removing it, for the small extra maintenance cost each year why not make the best of it to ensure it can be as close to the others if it  returned.

[Mike Cirba]

Alan,

One more thing I'm hypothetically thinking about is forcing cart traffic through a dirt channel path well right of the abandoned green.   It's not a course with wall to wall paths, but where they do exist they are pretty well marked and well directed and I think I can keep most of the traffic crossing that green to foot patrol.

In theory, of course. 

[Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG]

Keeping carts off certainly would help if you were going to do it. Just keep an eye on were you want them to go as you don't want to create a problem somewhere else. However if you were installing a green further down the hole then it really wouldn't be an issue as the traffic flow would pretty much remain the same (the hackers would just have to walk further )

[Jim_Kennedy]

Mike,
I don't know how well you would do trying to recover a green after that amount of time. There would be no stopping an invasion by the surrounding grasses; contours would be lost from the long term effect of heavier mowers and the occasional soggy mowing, and lastly, there could be a lot of damage from divot taking if the once-and-future greensite is now the perfect distance from which to approach the new green.


Good luck.

[Jake Straub]

Couple of questions to Mike and I think that Jim touched on some.  First is the fairway turf the same varieties as the greens on the golf course? (Are the fairways more poa then the greens or vice versa).  Second in that 10 year time frame have you switched turf varieties on the greens since this was a green?  Have you lost contours since the it became fairway?  Does it drain?

[Mike Cirba]

Jim/Jake,

Good questions and concerns, all.

Fortunately, the green and surrounds is a mongrel of different grass types mostly poa, yet still provides what I like to call a "mature" surface.   It is also at a high point so it drains well, and we're hoping that most second shots on the hole will carry well beyond the original green surface.  

All theoretical, of course, but perhaps we should shoot some hypothetical ground contours that presumably could be used by a future restorationist, just in case?

[Bradley Anderson]

Take a sod cutter and strip the putting surface and the embankments down to the toe of the slope. Remove the sod to a depth that exposes the original grades. On the embankments that should look like dirt. On the putting surface that should look like sand or whatever the soil looks like under all of the other greens on the golf course.

Now aerify all the greens on the golf course and collect the plugs. Spread the plugs evenly with rakes over the putting surface that you are recapturing. Add some bentgrass seed to the plugs and roll with a fairly heavy roller to compress the plugs. In between raking and rolling you will want to float the surface with a box pulled by a cart to smooth it out.

Now start watering it and in a few days you will have grass growing that matches up texturally with all the other greens on the golf course. The bentgrass seed that you have added will help to get it knitted and playable in three or four months. It may take a year of topdressing, gradually lowering the mowers, and rolling to get the same speeds that the other greens are playing at.

The surrounds and embankments can be finished with bluegrass sod. The collar, and fairway/approach transition should be grown in with the aeration plugs as well.

You will need 18 greens of plugs to get enough material to do one green.

Presto chango  

[Mike Cirba]

Bradley,

Keep it up and I'm going to have to start calling you "MacGyver".   

Thanks for the tips!

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