Propsal for par3 course @ Bandon....

[Tom Huckaby]

No, I mean champ.  The correct term is "champing at the bit."

In case you do not believe me:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champing_at_the_bit#In_popular_culture

Most people do get this wrong.

[Kalen Braley]

No, I mean champ.  The correct term is "champing at the bit."

In case you do not believe me:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champing_at_the_bit#In_popular_culture

Most people do get this wrong.

Well hot damn,

I stand corrected....learn something new every day! 

[Norbert P]

                                                          I grok !

[Rob Rigg]

I am sure that playing a 12 hole short course or a 9 holer will not appeal to many visitors who only visit once every couple of years per the Huck-a-meister - but depending on the cost to build and cost to play - the 12 holer probably has merit for simply making use of the land and protecting various habitats, etc. and providing an "overflow" area when things are really busy.

I think it would be fun to play Trails one morning and then hit the 12 holer in the afternoon and then maybe sneak out for 18 on one of the other courses in the late afternoon.

I would imagine that Mr Keiser and the Resort are not expecting the 12 hole course or the 9 hole course to get a ton of play. I wonder if the 9 hole course will turn into another 18 with the purchase of some more land - if so - the "architect" debate will get heated very quickly.

This probably sounds a little too "kool-aid'ish", but I think it is really neat that a short course is going in which might inspire families to visit the area because it would be a fun place to intro the kiddos to "links" golf - same with the 9 holer potentially. And based on the other four courses there is no doubt that the new editions will be a ton of fun.

It will always be a "guys golf getaway" place but a lot of guys have families and the OR coast is well frequented by in state'ers so it could provide a new and fairly reliable revenue stream. Especially if "homes/condos" go in and families are there more regularly.

[Garland Bayley]

                                                          I grok !

Thanks Slag,

I thought it was a software jockey term, 'til I saw you use it.

[Tim Book]

I wonderr how many groups play 36 on multiple days of their stay?  I would suspect that it is 100% of those on this board, but what about the non-golf junkies?  Maybe non-golf junkies don't go to Bandon.  I would imagine that are a number of visitors that don't want to walk 36 and would enjoy 12 holes in the late afternoon.

[PCCraig]

I can't imagine really worrying about which golf hole I'm playing at Bandon just as long as I'm actually playing golf. Par-3 course in the Dunes, C&C course in the woods, or on the ocean bluff....If that's the toughest choice you have to make all year you're doing alright!!

[Mark Kinney]

Joe B.,

Thanks for the link.... hope you're having a good winter!!!


Now I might be in error, please someone in the know correct me if needed, but the first diagram in the .pdf is that of the original proposal for the BD Resort.  To my knowledge, the area at the north end of the property that shows both an 18 and 9-hole course is the area that is covered by the entire Old Mac routing.

Also, IMO I would not worry too much about the 600 houses.  As with many master plans that are attached to long-term projects, plans can/do change sometimes significantly.  Do I believe there will a housing component to the property?  YES, but nowhere near that number.


As for the amount of play it will get.... I agree with Tim Book.  I have worked for many guests that either do not want to or physically cannot walk 36 holes.  Having the 12-hole par 3 will provide guests with another option.   Also, at some times throughout the year when it is busy with shorter days, very few groups will have the chance to play 36.

[Ken McGlynn]

http://bit.ly/8PbLY3
the routing and a couple of hole sketches are at the very bottom.  Its a PDF but very cool stuff..

Thank you Joseph for your inclusion of the information on the proposed 12 hole par three golf course at BDGR.

Now if we can turn to more pertinent matters, who's the early leader in the clubhouse to replace Ernie Kent as basketball coach after season's end?

[Jaeger Kovich]

Double Greens/Route Plan above - Some people made some comments about their disappointment with the lack of double greens via the plan that was posted above... I wouldn't pay to much attention to this plan. This is a very rough plan put in place for the purposes of going through permitting and zoning, not so much for golf purposes knowing the way C and C work. On a tour of the Dormie club, they had a scaled plan posted of the course up in their makeshift clubhouse they have been using during construction, a good number of the holes would have been unrecognizable on the course... Just not the way that C and C work, and Tom D is similar.

A quick question about the par-3 course: Are some of you (being the gca nuthouse member that you are!) saying that if you travel all the way across the country/continent/world to visit Bandon, you wouldn't find the time to play another 12 holes and 12 greens in natural sand dunes designed by arguably the games #1 (and no worse than #2) architect?

[Sean_A]

I wonderr how many groups play 36 on multiple days of their stay?  I would suspect that it is 100% of those on this board, but what about the non-golf junkies?  Maybe non-golf junkies don't go to Bandon.  I would imagine that are a number of visitors that don't want to walk 36 and would enjoy 12 holes in the late afternoon.

Tim

I am one of those guys.  36 rarely thrills me regardless of "value" because I don't think its great value to be playing golf all day.  Now, 18, a long lunch and 9 or 12 more holes sounds alright. 

Plus, I was thinking there may be groups that go to Bandon a lot and seeing everything on offer over the coruse of 2/3 visits may appeal especially if the small courses are competitively priced.

Ciao

[Tom Huckaby]

Sean - go check the prices at Bandon... methinks your thinking may change.

Few can afford repeat visits; few can afford to stay all that many nights.  One also gets a large discount for 2nd rounds each day.

In a perfect world of competitive prices and unlimited time, I like your plan also.  I too prefer a leisurely day as you describe to a mad-capped 36 hole day.  But at Bandon, well... due to the high quality of course and high cost of same, the thinking changes.

Bandon is perfect in terms of quality of courses, but is imperfect like the rest of the world in these other matters.

Thus my takes here.  For repeat visitors, residents, etc. it seems to me the par 3 course works.  For infrequent visitors outside the very very wealthy, I can't see the worth of time spent on the par 3 that could be spent on one of the fantastic larger courses.

[Sean_A]

Sean - go check the prices at Bandon... methinks your thinking may change.

Few can afford repeat visits; few can afford to stay all that many nights.  One also gets a large discount for 2nd rounds each day.

In a perfect world of competitive prices and unlimited time, I like your plan also.  I too prefer a leisurely day as you describe to a mad-capped 36 hole day.  But at Bandon, well... due to the high quality of course and high cost of same, the thinking changes.

Bandon is perfect in terms of quality of courses, but is imperfect like the rest of the world in these other matters.

Thus my takes here.  For repeat visitors, residents, etc. it seems to me the par 3 course works.  For infrequent visitors outside the very very wealthy, I can't see the worth of time spent on the par 3 that could be spent on one of the fantastic larger courses.

AwsHucster

Lets put it this way.  I went to Muirfield once and didn't play 36 (and I think the day rate only cost another £40).  I instead opted for a very long lunch and a game at Musselburgh.  I didn't want to be dictated to on how much time I take for lunch, not after paying £145.  Believe me, when i go to Bandon, it will be on my terms or not at all.  I routinely turn down invites to great places because 36 is on the cards. 

Ciao

[Tom Huckaby]

Sean:  understood.  Here's hoping you are cash-flush when you go to Bandon.  With your plan, you'll need to be. 

I do understand you though.  You just remain quite unique if you'd pay that kind of money to sit around.

TH

[Jud_T]

Sean,

If you go in June or July there's plenty of time for 36 and a very liesurely lunch....We alternate 36 hole days with 18 hole days so it's not such a grind...

[Sean_A]

Sean:  understood.  Here's hoping you are cash-flush when you go to Bandon.  With your plan, you'll need to be. 

I do understand you though.  You just remain quite unique if you'd pay that kind of money to sit around.

TH

Huckabilly

The way I see it, there are only so many games in my back.  I have to pace myself when travelin.  The combo of flights, car rides, hotel beds and several days of golf on the trot aren't conducive to long term golf.

Ciao

[Joe Bentham]

I thought the point of a vacation was to enjoy yourself.
 Does the golfer that plays #4 at pacific three times in two days enjoy it more then the golfer who plays it once?  Does the golfer that played #4 three times in two days even remember it off the top of his head?
Classic American thought process, more=better.

[George Pazin]

I wouldn't say more is better, I just wonder at how high a par 3 course would be on most people's priority list. After the last couple years of viewing Augusta's par 3 contest, I don't think I'd have much interest in playing it, either.

Heck, I'd rather walk and study a truly special course than play a very good one, so I know I'm a weirdo!

[Tom Huckaby]

Joe - I share George's sentiments and he phrased it well.  To each his own, for sure.

But again, the equation changes if time and funds are unlimited.

TH

[Joe Bentham]

I wouldn't say more is better, I just wonder at how high a par 3 course would be on most people's priority list. After the last couple years of viewing Augusta's par 3 contest, I don't think I'd have much interest in playing it, either.

Heck, I'd rather walk and study a truly special course than play a very good one, so I know I'm a weirdo!

George
Are u familiar with the ground the proposed par3 is going in on?
Isn't a course in those settings, covering only about 30 acres with only 7 acres maintained for golf intriguing from a 'study' standpoint?  Aren't alternative forms of the game a wave of the future? 
I get the feeling all season long that one of the only reasons some guys come to Bandon is so they can go home and tell their buddies they played 36 holes three days in a row.  I just didn't think those same guys posted on GCA...

[Jud_T]

I think the par 3 course will be great.  Sure not for the guys who play 36/36/36, but for the rest of us mere mortals it sounds like a lot of fun...On the days when we are only playing 18 (every other day in our case) it would be a ton of fun to have a liesurely lunch with a few beverages, then head out to the par 3 with say less than a full set of clubs for some real gambling....

[Tom Huckaby]

Joe - no one doubts the course will be great, no one doubts it will be great fun to play, no one doubts that the scenario Jud just expressed would be wonderful.

The doubt remains that infrequent visitors, which have to make up a large percentage of the clientele, at least how things are now, which find much use for the par 3 course, as great as it looks like it will be - not when their time could be spent playing a discounted round on one of the best large courses on earth.

It's also just conversation...

[George Pazin]

George
Are u familiar with the ground the proposed par3 is going in on?
Isn't a course in those settings, covering only about 30 acres with only 7 acres maintained for golf intriguing from a 'study' standpoint?  Aren't alternative forms of the game a wave of the future? 
I get the feeling all season long that one of the only reasons some guys come to Bandon is so they can go home and tell their buddies they played 36 holes three days in a row.  I just didn't think those same guys posted on GCA...

No, not at all, I have never been to Bandon. And I didn't say I wouldn't play it, I asked if others expected much play on the course. (I also asked about other notable par 3 courses, but no one answered that question.)

I guessed that I'd rather play a few holes on one of the other courses, given the repeat policy, I didn't say anything at all about whether others should or shouldn't play the par 3 course. I have no doubt that I'll at least look over the par 3 course, if it exists on that grand day I finally make it to Bandon.

The next time that I brag to anyone about playing 36 will be the first time...

[Shane Wright]

I have merely skimmed many of the responses, but I think what it boils down to is getting a return on investment. 

I think it is going to be pretty easy for Bandon to get a return on the investment into a 12 hole par 3 course.  It isn't going to cost an arm and leg to build.  Bandon makes their real money off of lodging.  The additions of Old Mac and the par 3 course will cause an extra night or two from many of the visitors. 
 
The infastructure for maintenance of the course is all there.  the lodging is all there.  it is a walking only facility....so many that come are overwhelmed by the thought of walking 36 in one day, so they can walk 18 and then go play the par 3 course.

as an owner, you have to be thinking...ok i have 30 acres returning ZERO.  how can i make this profitable without it being a residential play which probably wouldn't have passed thru the approval process anyway.

I don't know if I will have time to play it or not when we are out there in 2011, but from an owner's perspective, it won't be that hard to turn an eventual profit on it.

[PCCraig]

Sean and Joe-

No offense, if you fly 1000+ miles and then drive a couple hours to get to Bandon and you only have a few days to spend...the more golf the better. I can't imagine taking a long lunch when you have all kinds of great golf out there. For people who work constantly and don't get to take frequent golf trips time is your enemy.

This really goes for any golf trip I take along the same lines. If I head down to a place like Pinehurst or Kiawah for a long weekend, I'm not thinking about doing a whole lot other than playing 36+ holes a day and taking it easy at night. In other words...I can take long lunches at home.