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John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Mock Fantasy Draft II - Dream Course Edition
« Reply #600 on: January 16, 2010, 01:49:41 PM »
This was a lot of fun, but difficult for me as I always have to re-check hole numbers to be sure I got them right.  Easy enough to remember 1-2, 8-9, and 17-18, but all the ones in between give me trouble.

I limited my choices to courses I've actually played.  I still don't know if the limitation made it easier or more difficult, but at least reduced the number of courses under consideration. I think the major weaknesses of the course that I ended up with were no good short par 4s and too many approach shots to elevated greens.  I selected holes from 16 different courses, with four of the courses unique to my list.  The only double dips were at NGLA & Deal.  Seven of the 18 holes were from courses I played during my trip to Buda last September, so that's a pretty good endorsement of golf in Southeast England!

My next-best course
1  Oakmont,par 4
2  CPC, par 5
3  Walton Heath, par 4
4  TOC, par 4
5  Oakmont, par 4
6  West Sussex, par 3
7  Holston Hills, par 5
8  Camargo, par 3
9  Swinley Forest, par 4

10  Fishers Island, par 4
11  Lookout Mountain, par 4
12  Deal, par 4
13  Royal County Down, par 4
14  Engineers, par 3  (2 or 20 hole)
15  The Island, par 5
16  Riviera, par 3
17  Lawsonia, par 4
18  NGLA, par 5

And one more course:
1  Ballyneal, par 4
2  Fishers Island, par 3
3  Rustic Canyon, par 4
4  Yale, par 4
5  Camargo, par 3
6  Lawsonia, par 4
7  Prairie Dunes, par 5
8  Swinley Forest, par 3
9  MPCC Dunes, par 5

10  Deal, par 4
11  Royal County Down, par 4
12  Royal St. Georges, par 4
13  Crystal Downs, par 4
14  Rye, par 3
15  Camargo, par 3
16  West Sussex, par 4
17  Deal, par 4
18  Yale, par 5

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Mock Fantasy Draft II - Dream Course Edition
« Reply #601 on: January 16, 2010, 03:34:10 PM »
WE MUST have the Tom's over-rated list. Perhaps we can even wager who would have to most holes on that list. :)

I could have filled my entire 18 holes with Plainfield and I would have been pretty satisfied. It is just a REALLY REALLY great architecture.

So, Tom, what is the best hole Plainfield in your opinion? Is the the short uphill par 4? Or is it the long dog leg?

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: GCA Mock Fantasy Draft II - Dream Course Edition
« Reply #602 on: January 16, 2010, 07:03:52 PM »
Okay.  Here's the list of holes I would never have picked.

I'm not saying many of these are "bad" holes, only that they are weak selections considering we only had to choose 27 holes for each number out of 30,000 golf courses around the world.  And I recognize that some of them may have been chosen to fill a need ... i.e. I've got to have a par five for #8.  But you guys didn't even have to deal with trying to figure out what you could fit onto a piece of land, so you shouldn't have been stuck with something you didn't want.

Some of you may even agree with Tom Simpson's famous line that every eclectic course needs one or one-and-a-half bad holes so that it is not too perfect and too much for people's brains; but since no one volunteered as much in advance, I have assumed that you actually thought these holes were worthy!

Without further ado,

#1  Pacific Dunes (Kalen).  There were several other opening holes chosen which I didn't like much, either -- Bandon Trails is another, Augusta National is a brutal tee shot for most, and The Kingsley Club's opener is over the top in my book.  But I think I've built four or five better opening holes than Pacific's, which you could have picked instead, so I'll start with my own.

#2  Oakmont (Wyatt).  Why would you want to putt off the second green?  I didn't like the 2nd at St. Louis CC that much, either; seemed like a very straightforward Biarritz to me, and too early in the round.

#3  Royal St. George's (Eric Smith).  This bland long par 3 REPLACED the great Sahara which was such an inspiration to Macdonald.  The original was still there when I visited the course in 1982, but there wasn't much open sand left to defend it.  I was also very surprised to see the 3rd hole at Pebble Beach taken.

#4  Victoria (Robert Ball).  Don't remember this hole as special at all.  What about it do you like?

#5  Tobacco Road (Chip).  All of the weird lay-up options were over the top for me.

#6  Winged Foot West (Carl).  Only an interesting hole because of the difficulty if you drive it in the rough.

#7  Shinnecock Hills (Deucie).  Did you watch the last Open?  I have never thought this was a good version of the Redan ... because there is nowhere to play a shot short of the green to let it feed in.  You just have to hit a fade and start yelling "Bite" as soon as it's airborne.  The seventh at Maidstone was another odd choice.

#8  Holston Hills (Tim B).  Very straightforward short par 3.  I wouldn't have chosen my 8th at Rock Creek or the 8th at Cuscowilla, either.

#9  Turnberry (Matt B).  Take away the lighthouse, and you've got a wicked long par 4 with a crowned fairway and a weird green.  I could just as easily have gone with Jordan's choice of the 9th at Garden City GC, the only hole on the golf course that I think Travis got wrong; as it stands today it's either a boring lay-up tee shot or a bombs-away-don't-know-where-it's-going short 4.  I was surprised to see the 9th at Ballyneal on this list, too.

#10  Bandon Dunes (Patrick).  This has always been my least favorite hole on the course, because the feature which makes you play out to the left is a tiny hollow at the right front of the green that's hidden from view.  If the dune had been up against the green, or the dune had been removed so you could see the hollow, it wouldn't bother me as much.  Was surprised to see the 10th at Crystal Downs, too; and the 10th at The Brickyard was a really left-field (or infield) suggestion.

#11  Actually, I didn't single out any of the 11th hole choices as being holes I would never consider.

#12  St. Andrews Beach (Brad F).  I always thought of this hole as a bit of a letdown after a great run from 6-11.  I'm not surprised that there were many 12th holes I didn't like; it might be the weakest number out there, which is one reason the 12th at Augusta always makes these eclectic lists.  I would never have chosen the 12th at Yale or the 12th at Pacific Dunes or the 12th at Kiawah or the 12th at Piping Rock or the 12th at Bethpage Black, either.

#13  I'll go with the 13th at Bethpage Black (Richard Choi).  Just because Mickelson kept making a mess of it, does not mean it's a great hole.  I'll hold my lips on the other 13th hole I find overrated.

#14  Coeur d'Alene (Mac P).  Just sail it on out of here, or scuttle it on the rocks.  Was shocked to see the 14th at Lost Dunes, too -- I assume Jud T. has played it?

#15  Leatherstocking (JNC Lyon).  I actually do not even remember this hole.  I can vividly remember 16, 17, 18, but not 15.  Most of the other 15th holes were good, although the 15th at Bandon Dunes is not one of the great short holes in the world.

#16  Cape Kidnappers (George F).  I'm picking this one because it all boils down to the tee shot ... if you hit the fairway, it's a pretty easy hole, if not, you are going to make a mess.  Plus I hadn't dinged many par-5 holes.  I thought the 16th at Carne was an awful choice, too.  It's one of the only holes on that course where they did earthwork to try and make it work, and the earthwork is badly done, and it didn't even help much.  I think Carne is a great place overall, but not that hole.

#17  St. Andrews Beach (Eric S).  There were only four holes at St. Andrews Beach that I would never have considered, and two of them got picked, so I had to speak up!  The Jockey Club was a weird pick, too -- I barely remember the hole -- nor do I think the 17th at Oakmont was what Bernard Darwin had in mind when he said it was the duty of every great course to have a cracking 17th.

#18  Augusta National (Alex M).  Have you ever been there, man?  Do you really want your 18th hole to be 70 feet uphill, with trees on the left, bunkers through the fairway, and a heavily uphill second shot to an awkwardly-rebuilt green you can't see?  This hole is the proof that tournament play makes all courses overrated.  I never would have gone with the 18th at The Jockey Club or the 18th at San Francisco, either.


There were only two posters [besides me] who failed to pick a hole that I thought was a clunker -- Sean Arble and John Mayhugh.  Congrats to both.  Sean picked three holes I haven't seen, but I like the rest of his choices so much that he just put Beau Desert near the top of my list of courses to see.  And since neither of them stooped to picking a hole from one of my courses, I will have to call it a tie.  Thus, both will receive an invitation to this year's Renaissance Cup, once we decide where it will be.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2010, 08:36:43 PM by Tom_Doak »

Chip Gaskins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Mock Fantasy Draft II - Dream Course Edition
« Reply #603 on: January 16, 2010, 07:07:24 PM »
Congrats to myself... :o ;D

I am the only one that looks like that picked two holes that doesn't cut the mustard with Mr. Doak.  Tobacco Road #4 and St. Louis #2.

My defense for both.

St. Louis CC #2 I thought was a great version of the Biarritz.  I thought the green was large enough on both pads to hold a long iron and I thought the uphill actually helped the ball release a bit (at lease when I played) because the ball was coming in lower.  I also liked the quirk of having a long Biarritz par 3 that early in the round.

Tobacco Road #4.  I think it has two great options.  From the back tees you can hit a 4 iron over to right and have a very hard 9 iron into a small, crowned green.  The longer hitters can give it a go directly at the green.  That leaves you with a 30 yard pitch to that table top green.  I have made a lot of bogeys from down in that area proving the better route is short and right off the tee, though I never can tell myself to do it.

Best,
Clunker Picker
« Last Edit: January 16, 2010, 07:14:47 PM by Chip Gaskins »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: GCA Mock Fantasy Draft II - Dream Course Edition
« Reply #604 on: January 16, 2010, 07:13:05 PM »
Chip:

Don't be so hard on yourself, I actually had a couple of guys down for four bad choices, but I might not have listed all of them.

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Mock Fantasy Draft II - Dream Course Edition
« Reply #605 on: January 16, 2010, 07:13:59 PM »
#8  Holston Hills (Tim B).  Very straightforward short par 3.  I wouldn't have chosen my 8th at Rock Creek or the 8th at Cuscowilla, either.

Busted!!!  Though I must confess, this was the only hole on the list that I picked partially based on performance.  I have only hit two tee shots on that hole and both were within 8 feet of the pin.  I went 1 for 2 on the putts.  I needed a short par 3 in the routing to balance my three other par 3s of 200+, and I thought the hole looked a little more visually intimidating than the results of my shots suggested.

I was going to take Holston #9, partially due to my eagle there this year, but that got wiped out when my first round pick was a #9 (CPC.)

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Mock Fantasy Draft II - Dream Course Edition
« Reply #606 on: January 16, 2010, 07:17:31 PM »
Re: #1s - I was surprised by the Pac Dunes pick as well, though I really like #1 at Bandon Trails and at Kingsley.  I might have suggested Ballyneal #1 to Mr. Braley if he really wanted a Doak to lead off.  I like that you can play it dead-on the fairway in the morning when you are getting warmed up and then take it over to the diagonal angle for the afternoon.

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Mock Fantasy Draft II - Dream Course Edition
« Reply #607 on: January 16, 2010, 07:38:04 PM »

There were only two posters [besides me] who failed to pick a hole that I thought was a clunker -- Sean Arble and John Mayhugh.  Congrats to both.  Sean picked three holes I haven't seen, but I like the rest of his choices so much that he just put Beau Desert near the top of my list of courses to see.  And since neither of them stooped to picking a hole from one of my courses, I will have to call it a tie.  Thus, both will receive an invitation to this year's Renaissance Cup, once we decide where it will be.

I didn't see my name on the bonehead pick list or getting praise.  I can't stand being mediocre :)
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Jim Thornton

Re: GCA Mock Fantasy Draft II - Dream Course Edition
« Reply #608 on: January 16, 2010, 07:59:00 PM »
Tom Doak-

I haven't played Lost Dunes, nor was it the 14th hole on my list.  My 14th was Muirfield Village.

Also, you noted on an earlier thread the similarity of my 9th hole at Myopia to my 13th hole at Muirfield.  For that reason, I had actually swapped out the 13th at Muirfield and replaced it with the 13th at TOC in an earlier round.

Does that mean I'm now "clunker free"? ;D

Jim Thornton
« Last Edit: January 16, 2010, 08:02:19 PM by Jim Thornton »

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Mock Fantasy Draft II - Dream Course Edition
« Reply #609 on: January 16, 2010, 08:00:04 PM »
Just got back from a golf trip and have been offlline for a few days.

Looks like I missed some cool stuff.

This was a lot of fun and I am looking forward to the next fantasy draft.

Two items of noteworthiness...

#1--Kalen's par 75 beauty.  Nice!

#2--Matthew's par 4 beauty...real nice!!!  That is what I call perseverance.

Also, on the comments and questions regarding me and my course.

1--this was posted..."Mac picked SIX holes I have never seen, way more than anyone else, so I don't know if those are underrated or whether he's just crazy."---------------well, I don't really think it needs to be answered as I am sure we already know that answer!!

2--also my 14th hole at Couer d'alene came into question.  If you remember when I picked it I said something along the lines of...a movebale green can only be appreciated by TRUE architects and anyone who criticizes it is a pretender or a  wannabe.  Well, as for the recent critics...if the shoe fits!   ;) ;D :)

Obviously, I'm kidding.

This has been really fun!!

Thanks Jim!!
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: GCA Mock Fantasy Draft II - Dream Course Edition
« Reply #610 on: January 16, 2010, 08:35:41 PM »
Tom Doak-

I haven't played Lost Dunes, nor was it the 14th hole on my list.  My 14th was Muirfield Village.

Also, you noted on an earlier thread the similarity of my 9th hole at Myopia to my 13th hole at Muirfield.  For that reason, I had actually swapped out the 13th at Muirfield and replaced it with the 13th at TOC in an earlier round.

Does that mean I'm now "clunker free"? ;D

Jim Thornton


Whoops!  Wrong JT ... I had only written down initials.  That was Jud T's pick.

Jim T:  The only hole you picked that raised an eyebrow with me was the 15th at The Honors Course.  It's been twenty years since I was there, and I don't remember the hole that well ... it's the other big par-4 around the lake opposite #7, right?  If so, what's the big deal?

Brad Fleischer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Mock Fantasy Draft II - Dream Course Edition
« Reply #611 on: January 16, 2010, 08:52:58 PM »
#12  St. Andrews Beach (Brad F).  I always thought of this hole as a bit of a letdown after a great run from 6-11.  I'm not surprised that there were many 12th holes I didn't like; it might be the weakest number out there, which is one reason the 12th at Augusta always makes these eclectic lists.  I would never have chosen the 12th at Yale or the 12th at Pacific Dunes or the 12th at Kiawah or the 12th at Piping Rock or the 12th at Bethpage Black, either.



Ouch nothing like getting called out by Tom. However at least you added I wouldn't have picked x,y and z. Plus I wasn't going to take any of your courses but I figured I would take the worst hole after 6 on the one course of your's I most want to see ;)  12 actually proved tough because of what was picked already and trying to stick to the guidelines I set for myself.  

So Here's a question  what's your 5 favorite number 12 hole's ? Your fav's for whatever reason not necessarily the best architecturally .

Brad
PS
I happen to like the 16th at Carne for no other reason than I almost aced it and I just stood on that tee for 1/2 hour admiring the view and contemplating life ;p

« Last Edit: January 16, 2010, 09:02:05 PM by Brad Fleischer »

Kyle Henderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Mock Fantasy Draft II - Dream Course Edition
« Reply #612 on: January 16, 2010, 08:54:43 PM »

There were only two posters [besides me] who failed to pick a hole that I thought was a clunker -- Sean Arble and John Mayhugh.  Congrats to both.  Sean picked three holes I haven't seen, but I like the rest of his choices so much that he just put Beau Desert near the top of my list of courses to see.  And since neither of them stooped to picking a hole from one of my courses, I will have to call it a tie.  Thus, both will receive an invitation to this year's Renaissance Cup, once we decide where it will be.

And Mayhugh was  trying to tell me he isn't "America's Guest."  ;D
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Jim Thornton

Re: GCA Mock Fantasy Draft II - Dream Course Edition
« Reply #613 on: January 16, 2010, 09:03:07 PM »
Tom-

Yep, that's the one.  It's a great half par hole for the average player.  Challenging tee shot with the lake on the left and a stream bisecting the fairway at 260-300 yards (depending on which tee you play), leaving a mid to long iron approach to a green set hard by the lake.  For all levels of player, water comes into play on both the drive and approach.  If you bail right on the approach shot, there's a nasty little swale right of the green that makes for a tough up and down since you're pitching toward the water.  For the less skilled player (like myself), the green is receptive to running a ball on with a fairway wood or alternatively, there is about 60 yards of fairway short of the green for a layup shot (although you need to be precise with a layup, which is another reason I like the hole).  The green is about 40 paces deep and has some wonderful internal contours and a front to back slope.  If you play the hole aggressively, you can easily make a big number, and with the hole falling late in the round, it's a couple of nerve jangling shots to navigate the lake, stream, swale, etc.  I actually thought the 15th and the short par 4 9th were the best holes on what is a terrific golf course (my favorite Dye course).

I cut and pasted Ran's description of the 15th below in order for you to have another point of view in addition to my own.

15th hole, 445 yards; Compare this hole with the home hole at the Stadium Course at TPC Sawgrass and one can appreciate why The Honors Course remains a joy for its members to play on a regular basis: Pete Dye provided a bail-out area for the approach shot. Off the tee, there are similarities but at TPC you must hit the green or best case, face a brutal up and down. Here, the weaker golfer can bail toward the right and has a reasonable chance of a chip and putt par. The hole still remains highly satisfying for the Tiger who must shape a perfect draw into the green. The Dyes struck a perfect balance for all golfers with this one.

Jim

Jim Thornton

Re: GCA Mock Fantasy Draft II - Dream Course Edition
« Reply #614 on: January 16, 2010, 09:31:38 PM »
P.S.

It would be interesting to hear Chris Cupit's opinion on the 15th at The Honor's Course since he is a former club champion.

Chris, care to weigh in?

Jim

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Mock Fantasy Draft II - Dream Course Edition
« Reply #615 on: January 16, 2010, 09:55:26 PM »
Cool! This is one "bad" list that I am kinda thrilled to be on. :)

I got one honorable mention (Augusta 1st) and a full one for Bethpage Black #13. So, that's gotta mean I am up there on the dishonorable list.

Although, I did state that when I picked BB #13, it was mostly dues to the fact that I got an EAGLE on this hole. And yes,  I will be repeating that fact whenever this hole is discussed on this board.

I would like to know the two culprits with 4 so-so holes. I am afraid I am not familiar enough with all the courses to be able to even venture a guess.

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Mock Fantasy Draft II - Dream Course Edition
« Reply #616 on: January 16, 2010, 09:59:02 PM »
A)  JC, I'm with you...none of my holes made the 18 Clunkers, nor did I receive praise...sort of like being in limbo, purgatory (not Engh's) or some other suspended state;

B)  The 15th at Leatherstocking is the last fine hole on the course.  It is the slight dogleg right, short par five to a punchbowl green.  It has some fairway bunkering, but not too much.  I barely made 5 when I played there.  16 is a good hole, 17 is OK and 18 is a great par four...as a monstrous boomerang par five with a tee in the water (be careful what you wish for, Cypress Point), it is a clown's hole.  Tom, I have to disagree with you on this one... the stretch of 13-15 at Leatherstocking offers birdie-eagle-eagle as distinct possibilities, as well as double-double-double;

C)  It doesn't surprise me that MacKenzie forgot the 9th at Crystal Downs--Doak and Gaskins can't even agree on the hole at Tobacco Road...is it the par five or the par four?

D)  More thoughts to come.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Chris Cupit

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Mock Fantasy Draft II - Dream Course Edition
« Reply #617 on: January 16, 2010, 10:09:43 PM »
Jim Thornton,

At the risk of not having my gate card work again I'll say 15 at The Honors isn't my favorite hole although I don't think it's a dog by any stretch.

Let me start by saying that I hate lakes.  I don't know what it is but I have an irrational fear of lakes to the point I don't even like hot tubs :D  I love the irregular shape of creeks, streams, bunkers... (although I certainly recognize how those water courses can change over time).

There is a lot I like about #15.  I love how you play 6 holes before walking up and seeing the beautiful 22 acre lake that dominates 7 and 15.  There is certainly an intimidation factor walking back to both tees and after making the turn you head back into the woods again, get to play the really good short par 3 14th dominated by so much vegetation and then pop back out to see the sea monster staring at you again!

(#7 just sucks that the cross ties and lack of anything along the right side make the hole ugly to my eye.

I much prefer the stone along the lake edge used on 8,9 and 15.  I think they used it after blowing up 10 fairway back prior to the last three renovations of #10 :D

Anyway, part of my lack of love for 15 is the "lake effect".  Another is the multiple personalities of the teeing grounds.  I bitch as much as anyone about golfers who "demand" that hole yardages "fit" their games.  As a golfer I know you are supposed to tee it up and play and not care where you start.  But....

15 just never seemed to fit me.  I'd love to hit a sold drive and be left with a 4-7 iron and I don't know that in my 19 years there that's ever happened.  From the regular blue tees its 410.  If I hit a good drive at the bridge in the distance its a wedge second shot.  In a tournament I have hit everything from driver, 3-wood, 4-wood, hybrids, 1 and 2 irons.  If I am in contention all i am trying to do is get to the 150 mark and the aim a 8 iron at the right front edge of the green.  the green does have two ridges which divide the green into thirds but its a pretty simple green and it is pretty easy from that tee to play very conservatively.

There are three other back tees!  The original at 445 is straight away and is a tough shot.  It also is the least used tee the last few years.  In 1996(?) for the NCAA that Tiger won a new tee at about 450 was built but at a severe angle so you hit out across the water.  For whatever reason it made it a far easier shot.  You could play into the fairway without fear of the trees on the other side and the right to left bank of the fairway helped funnel balls into the "speed slot" along the water.  I certainly am not a long hitter any more but from that tee it's rarely more than a 7 iron.

The new back tee is behind the old 445 and is just too long for me.  It's around 480 and I can't play the hole from there unless it's a Driver and hybrid.

Again, this isn't the holes "fault" but just why it's not my favorite.

My favorites at The Honors:
Par 4s:  #5, #9, #13
Par 3s:  #14
Par 5:  #6

Again for #15 I do think its a good hole and it is very pretty.  The green is a touch bland for me and I mentioned the lake thing :)  Plus I am older and fatter and can't appreciate the tips anymore :(
« Last Edit: January 16, 2010, 10:12:44 PM by Chris Cupit »

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Mock Fantasy Draft II - Dream Course Edition
« Reply #618 on: January 16, 2010, 10:59:38 PM »

There were only two posters [besides me] who failed to pick a hole that I thought was a clunker -- Sean Arble and John Mayhugh.  Congrats to both.  Sean picked three holes I haven't seen, but I like the rest of his choices so much that he just put Beau Desert near the top of my list of courses to see.  And since neither of them stooped to picking a hole from one of my courses, I will have to call it a tie.  Thus, both will receive an invitation to this year's Renaissance Cup, once we decide where it will be.


Well, Tom has just proven to me he knows what the hell he's talking about. 

Bragging rights would have been good enough, but to thrown in an invite to the Renaissance Cup - that's awesome.  Thanks a lot.  Any truth to the rumor that invitees also get a copy of the Confidential Guide from your secret stash?    ;D

24 of the 486 holes chosen were from either Pacific Dunes or Old Mac.  I can't wait to see those courses for the first time in May.  Tim Bert claims it's going to be worth the trip.

Does anyone's course look more FUN than Sean Arble's??

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Mock Fantasy Draft II - Dream Course Edition
« Reply #619 on: January 16, 2010, 11:40:32 PM »
Tom:

Thanks for taking the time to comment on the picks -- very interesting.

As for my pick of WFW #6, well, I was limited to courses I had played or seen in person, and I really wanted a short par 4 on the front nine, and Mac was completely flummoxed when I tried to trade him for #5 at Cuscowilla  :D, and I liked having a short par 4 before a very short par 3 (Pebble #7), and several other short par 4's I had played were already taken, . . . so given all of those limitations, I'd say it was an inspired pick!






Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Mock Fantasy Draft II - Dream Course Edition
« Reply #620 on: January 17, 2010, 12:10:01 AM »
Not so fast Chip! I am way more u n w o r t h y than you...

Okay.  Here's the list of holes I would never have picked.


#3  Royal St. George's (Eric Smith).  This bland long par 3 REPLACED the great Sahara which was such an inspiration to Macdonald.  The original was still there when I visited the course in 1982, but there wasn't much open sand left to defend it.

#17  St. Andrews Beach (Eric S).  There were only four holes at St. Andrews Beach that I would never have considered, and two of them got picked, so I had to speak up!  


Plus two other slap downs in there as well...

Can I replace that stink hole 17 SAB with 17 Secession?  I played it today with some gca guys - I loved that hole.  Mac tried to play a run-up shot...thought he was at the Old Course.

John and Sean - Top notch, top notch!!  Do either of you need a caddy (or standard bearer) at the RC? Please allow me to offer up my services.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Mock Fantasy Draft II - Dream Course Edition
« Reply #621 on: January 17, 2010, 01:57:28 AM »
Tom didn't declare any of my 18 picks a clunker! However, I suspect I won't get an invite to the Renaissance Cup. If he did, I would have to decline unless he also invited Kalen to take another shot at me at GRUDGE MATCH THE SEQUEL.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Sean_A

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Re: GCA Mock Fantasy Draft II - Dream Course Edition
« Reply #622 on: January 17, 2010, 04:55:59 AM »
Thank you much Tom D.  Someday you will have to explain to me what the Ren Cup is.  I spose that makes up for you nicking my opening hole! This was a major mistake on my part to let Machrihanish go especially as I picked it early.  I had to settle for St Enodoc's #1 which is good, but in no way does it compare to the 1st at Machrihanish.  Even my second choice of St Andrews was nicked. This was a big let down.  

I must say that I underestimated you lot.  I lost a few holes that are dear to my heart because I didn't think folks would be so aggressive in taking holes from GB&I.  The knock on effect was also harsh as it meant I couldn't grab the 16th Addington - perhaps the greatest par 5 in the heathlands.  I did, however, manage to grab the other candidate for the throne, #6 Sunny New.

Tom, I can't take too much credit for not taking holes from your courses.  I may well be one of the very few on this site who hasn't played one of your courses.  Of course this also means that I am in no position to gauge how well others did in this game.  Although, because of my lack of experience in playing American courses and knowing that my competition was nearly all Yanks, I decided early not to mess with trying to get American holes on my course.  Too much competition out there to risk having the flow of my course messed up by not getting critical holes.  It was bad enough losing the opener at Machrihanish and Foxy.  

Anyway, thanks for everything Jim.  I enjoyed myself and would do it again.  

BTW  Tom D, when you want to play Beau Desert give me a shout.

Ciao
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 05:10:46 AM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Tom_Doak

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Re: GCA Mock Fantasy Draft II - Dream Course Edition
« Reply #623 on: January 17, 2010, 07:08:02 AM »
Sean:

The Renaissance Cup is our annual company golf event -- we invite friends from all around the world and play a different one of our courses every year, usually something fairly new.  We have not decided the venue for 2010 yet; it could be at Old Macdonald or the Bay of Dreams or at one of the courses which has never hosted it.  Barnbougle Dunes and The Rawls Course are two of those.

The whole purpose of the event is just to get people to come and play one of our courses, and play it a couple of times so they can be a little more familiar with it.  I had noticed how panelists make these big trips and play every course once and rush on to the next, and if they don't play a hole well they can't remember it.  Just curious -- how many people picked a hole for this draft which they have only played ONCE?

Anyway it would correct your deficiency of never having played a Doak course.  It's a better-ball match-play event; you could bring a partner, or I could pair you with John Mayhugh!


Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Mock Fantasy Draft II - Dream Course Edition
« Reply #624 on: January 17, 2010, 07:46:38 AM »
Sean:

The Renaissance Cup is our annual company golf event -- we invite friends from all around the world and play a different one of our courses every year, usually something fairly new.  We have not decided the venue for 2010 yet; it could be at Old Macdonald or the Bay of Dreams or at one of the courses which has never hosted it.  Barnbougle Dunes and The Rawls Course are two of those.

The whole purpose of the event is just to get people to come and play one of our courses, and play it a couple of times so they can be a little more familiar with it.  I had noticed how panelists make these big trips and play every course once and rush on to the next, and if they don't play a hole well they can't remember it.  Just curious -- how many people picked a hole for this draft which they have only played ONCE?

Anyway it would correct your deficiency of never having played a Doak course.  It's a better-ball match-play event; you could bring a partner, or I could pair you with John Mayhugh!



Very fine!  That would be one way to see a Doak. 

Your question about how many picked a hole they only played once.

#8 Troon
#10 Cavendish
#12 Aberdovey
#13 Prestwick

Mind you, the 8th at Troon & The 13th at Prestwick are no-brainers - its hard to forget those not least because of their fame. Anyone who has seen the 12th at Aberdovey wouldn't forget it.  Cavendish, well, that is quite recent for me so its fresh on my mind.

I look forward to the invite.  I hope its in the States during late October.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing