Golf Architects - Life Expectancy

[Shane Wright]

Gentlemen:

I finally got a copy of the newest World Atlas of Golf and started reading it this past weekend.  Something I had never noticed before but was completely surprised by was the number of years most of the Golden Age Architects lived to be. 

Granted there were a few who ended abruptly, but the majority of the well known Golden Agers lived much longer than the average life expectancy at the time.  Almost all were very well traveled and got to see and do some AWESOME stuff. 

As a professional in the senior housing industry and out of curiosity in general, any insight into this?  To  our Modern Era GCA'ers, it seems that if your wish is to live a long time, the math is in your favor.  I know the travel work load can be very exhausting but I was encouraged to see this info.

I apologize for not having the specific numbers as I'm on the road today, but will try to post later on.  But 70-80+ seemed to be pretty common when 60-65 had to have been about the average for males at the time. 

[Jud_T]

probably has something to do with not sitting behind a desk for a living....

[Niall C]

Maybe its also something to do with a lot of the older guys being of well off independently from their golf design business, and relative the rest of the population. ie. MacKenzie was a doctor, MacDonald a stock broker, Colt a solicitor and so on.

Niall

[Shane Wright]

probably has something to do with not sitting behind a desk for a living....

what about sitting behind a steering wheel! 

[Tim Nugent]

Here's a thought and other archies feel free to chime in.  Spending a day in the field usually ends up in a lot of walking and that's up and down oversome rough ground.  Plus, you get a good nights sleep.  On my 1st job that had a Tour designer, I was appalled when they were driven around in the back of a piclup and in/out in a few hours.  Back then, travel took much longer, so I imagine it was a bit more relaxed.  Being Professionals, they didn't didn't have to labor in the working conditions afforded the average man.  I would also suspect their diet and health care was probably at a higher level.
I wouldn't be surprised if todays archies don't end up living as long.  Things can get pretty stressful especially when one is on the road for a good portion of the year and dining on fast food.

[Mac Plumart]

Perhaps the long lifes are attributable doing something they loved day in and day out?

Reading the writings of those three, there is evident passion for golf and golf course architecture and they had the opportunity to be around it day in and day out and then write about it in the evenings.  From my personal experiences, doing what you love to do seems to make the days fly by...while doing something you hate makes you not want to get out of bed in the morning and builds up stress and frustration.  These things are certainly not healthy for you.

Also, as has been mentioned...walking the courses they are designing and walking to play golf (as I believe was the standard back then) provided them exercise to stay healthy.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Raynor died young, but he worked for CBM.....I know I still have no grey hair, so being self employed and loving the work probalby has something to do with it.  Of course, I have fired myself multiple times, but I always hire myself right back.....

[PThomas]

Of course, I have fired myself multiple times, but I always hire myself right back.....

reminds me of why i talk to myself sometimes Jeff:  i am never wrong!

[Tim Nugent]

Jeff, do you cut your pay when you take you back?

[Tony_Muldoon]

Reminds me of an funny interview I once saw featuring the pianist and wag Jools Holland. 

He was asked if he had any hobbies and he replied "Yes reading obituaries standing up."  When asked to explain he said he used to read them sitting down but then he noticed how long Conductors lived.

[Randy Thompson]

I grew up close to where Jeffery Cornish lived and I remeber in the late 70´s I beleive the New England Medical journal did an article on him and how at the time he was pushing close to 70 and he had the heart of a 40 year old and he now is in his 90¨s. Its the walking and walking and lets face it, walking enters into the formula also!! I wonder if he has any problems with skin cancer, although the sunny season was short for to him compared to Dye for example that spent most of his desiigning hours in the sun belt and outdoors on site.

[paul cowley]

I plan on dieing when I do, and becoming part of the average age of GCA's death statistics.

[Jason Connor]

Do great ODG live long lives?

Or did only architects who lived long lives become prolific enough to be declared great?

[Jeff_Brauer]

I got to thinking at lunch, with all the walking we do on pre developed sites, that we haven't lost a few more to snake bites, etc.  I know Frank Duane contracted menigitis whiile on site, and I know Paul Cowley is recovering from a brown recluse bite in 2009!

I have only had a few close snake encounters over 32 years, but you think we would have had more fatal ones, or perhaps a few more bouts with melanoma, etc., to counteract some of us long livers.

[Norbert P]

  Arm waving!  The new tai chi.

  Live long and prosper.

[Shane Wright]

I got to thinking at lunch, with all the walking we do on pre developed sites, that we haven't lost a few more to snake bites, etc.  I know Frank Duane contracted menigitis whiile on site, and I know Paul Cowley is recovering from a brown recluse bite in 2009!

I have only had a few close snake encounters over 32 years, but you think we would have had more fatal ones, or perhaps a few more bouts with melanoma, etc., to counteract some of us long livers.

Jeff, thats why you came up here to Minnesota to design some courses isn't it? 

Thanks for the comments guys...I just thought I would throw some life expectancy holiday cheer out there for our GCA'ers.  Best of luck with all projects in 2010.  I look forward to hearing more about them as they are released to the public.

I will still post some of the Golden Agers' life spans as soon as my 8 month old decides that sleep is awesome.

 

[paul cowley]

I got to thinking at lunch, with all the walking we do on pre developed sites, that we haven't lost a few more to snake bites, etc.  I know Frank Duane contracted menigitis whiile on site, and I know Paul Cowley is recovering from a brown recluse bite in 2009!

I have only had a few close snake encounters over 32 years, but you think we would have had more fatal ones, or perhaps a few more bouts with melanoma, etc., to counteract some of us long livers.

Jeff....I followed up with a Black Widow bite on my side this fall....better than the recluse, but it left it's mark.

I had a 'why not collect them all this year' mentality.....fully expecting a snake bite....probably from the little sneaky pigmy rattlers that seem to infest my swampland....but no, it's now 010....i'm here!, no fear!, not queer![?]....ready to tackle low and hog tie a client!


....but I don't know man....chances are better to hog tie a little pygmy.

I am starting a new bar at the end of my 3 mile dirt road, with my buddy Jim.

Gonna call it the Outpost...and it will be in my tool shed wit a front porch, and a fire pit

I'll put up a flip sign that says open or shut.....no hours.

Tips only ....depending on what you drink , which depends on what we have at the time.

You all are invited....map quest 1360 douglas fish club road, white oak, camden county ,Ga

Good luck though, as map quest hadn't gotten it right yet

or 912 222 1616 cell [that doesn't work most of the time there].

oh well.....

[Forrest Richardson]

I want to live long, but not as long as the current golf ball.

[paul cowley]

I want to live long, but not as long as the current golf ball.

you want to live shorter than a golf ball? that's sick

I have a tip bar and a free B+b with your name on it....gonna get some fun bar girl or too!

We can even talk golf maybe [maybe]...come on...bring friends!

love you

[Shane Wright]

Here they are according to the World Atlas of Golf:

C.B. Mac - 84
Fowler - 85
Wille Park Jr. - 61
Harry Colt - 82
Alister MacKenzie - 64
Donald Ross - 72
Tillinghast - 70
Tom Simpson - 87
Charles Alison - 70
Flynn - 55
Stanley Thompson - 58

[Phil_the_Author]

Shane,

The World Atlas of Golf is incorrect. Tilly was 66 when he died, not 70, as he was born on May 7, 1876 and died on May 19, 1942.

[Mike_Young]

As for snakebites.....read this one from a course I did in Savannah, Ga....the guy woke up three days later

And we never saw one snake.....

http://lists.envirolink.org/pipermail/ar-news/Week-of-Mon-20031124/011592.html

[Jay Carstens]

Here are a few more but can't say they're gospel just approximate:
Behr 71
Stiles 69
Nicklaus turns 70
Leeds 75
Braid 80
Hunter 68
Morrison 69
Bell 67
Raynor 52
Banks 48
Maxwell 73
Morris, Sr 87
Neville 87
Pete Dye is 85
Mackenzie 64
Bendelow 68
Crump 46

[Jay Carstens]

Shane,

The World Atlas of Golf is incorrect. Tilly was 66 when he died, not 70, as he was born on May 7, 1876 and died on May 19, 1942.

Philllip,
I have 1874 as does the Tillinghast site but we could all be wrong.   
Jay

[Phil_the_Author]

Jay,

Thanks, I didn't realize the Tilly website listed it as 1874. I'll get it changed.

The prologue to my Tilly bio goes into the date in detail. The short version is that an early photo has written on the back a birth date of 1874. It was written by Tilly's wife Lillian. One would expect that she would have known, but for whatever reason what she wrote was incorrect.

What also makes this more than a silly exercise is that his death certificate lists a birth date of May 7, 1875. This is also incorrect. This date would have been provided by the family at that time as there was no birth certificate.

So how do we know that he was born on May 7, 1876? Because of information contained in the census of 1880 & 1930 (the family provided copies of both to me). Even though the census records do not list a birth year, these two combine to allow for a positive conclusion of 1876 to be given.

The 1880 census notes "that Benjamin Collins Tillinghast had a son living with himself, his wife and their two servants in their house. It also says that he was 4 years old. This census was taken on June 10th, 1880. If we subtract that from 1880 we get a birth year of 1876. In the 1930 census taken on May 3rd, it states that he was 53. As the day of his birth was May 7th, he therefore must have been born in 1876. The 1880 census would have been taken just a little more than a month after his fourth birthday and the 1930 census would have been taken just four days before his 54th birthday.

This information and conclusion is the result of research done by Tilly's great-granddaughter Monica, who is the archivist for the Minnesota Historical Society.