Best Robert Trent Jones courses?

[Bart Bradley]

Ran just posted a profile of the Dunes course in MB and commented that it was his favorite RTJ course.

Of the ones that I have seen I would put his top 3 as:

1.  Mauna Kea -- very interesting land movement, excellent par 3s and beautiful Hawaiian views...first 11 holes truly outstanding.

2.  The Dunes Club -- a solid routing with interesting rolling landscape..see Ran's profile

3.  Spyglass -- what a wonderful first few holes and then solid, but not spectacular, holes...a missed opportunity with the routing but still good fun...too bad the first few holes couldn't be the finishers.

I have not seen Peachtree....which I suspect is one of his best.  What do you guys think?

Bart

[John Blain]

The best RTJ  course in the country is Crag Burn GC in East Aurora, NY

[Sean Leary]

I enjoyed Wilmington (South) a great deal.....

[BCrosby]

Dark hourse candidate - Carambola, St. Croix.

Virtually unchanged. Not ideally maintained, but some very good holes. It should not be missed if you are in the area.

Bob

[Bart Bradley]

Dark hourse candidate - Carambola, St. Croix.

Virtually unchanged. Not ideally maintained, but some very good holes. It should not be missed if you are in the area.

Bob

Bob:

I liked Carambola a good deal but would put it below Spyglass...How would you compare the two?

Bart

[Anthony_Nysse]

Point O Woods

[Tom_Doak]

Mr. Jones himself picked five favorites when he wrote his book, "Golf's Magnificent Challenge," published in 1988.  Here are his own words on the subject:

"Ask any architect what his best course to date is, and I wouldn't be surprised if his answer was his last one.  That could very well be true for myself as well.  I'm often asked which of my own courses is my favorite, and likely as not, I'll point to my recently completed.

Ask me however, my favorite five, tell me to be honest and to take my time, and I'd be hard put not to pick the five shown here.  In alphabetical order they are:  Ballybunion (New); Firestone South (my remodel) [since changed by Jack Nicklaus]; Mauna Kea; Sotogrande (I'll cheat and say both courses); and Spyglass."

So you've got to count that for something, although I am surprised he didn't pick Peachtree or The Dunes, which would be in my Jones top five.

More of Mr. Jones on himself -- the caption to the Spyglass Hill photo:

"I've had knowledgeable people tell me that Spyglass is the best course on the Monterey Peninsula.  That includes Pebble Beach and Cypress Point, and certainly Spyglass has a better change of pace than those courses." 

[Ronald Montesano]

Seven Oaks in Hamilton, NY is excellent.

Crag Burn is excellent.

There is a private club in Westchester country called Anglebrook, his last course, that is rumored to be something special.

I have not played his course at Cornell University.

Finally, Green Lakes State Park, a municipal course near Syracuse, NY is also very good.

[jim_lewis]

I can only judge the 20 courses I have played, so I must yield to JP, who has apparently played all of Mr. Jones's courses in the US.

My top 5 would be:
Pinetree
Dunes
Greenville CC
Eugene CC (since he reversed the routing, I consider it a Jones course)
Spyglass

If you don't count Eugene, I would substitute Bellerive or Port Royal, or maybe Pauma Valley or Old Warson.

Jim Lewis

[Carl Nichols]

The current iteration of RTJ in Virginia is really, really good .... I'm just not sure how much was changed by Kyle Phillips.

[Bill_McBride]

"I've had knowledgeable people tell me that Spyglass is the best course on the Monterey Peninsula.  That includes Pebble Beach and Cypress Point, and certainly Spyglass has a better change of pace than those courses." 

It's hard to deny that Spyglass Hill has a change of pace, but who could truthfully say it's for the better?

I can clearly remember my first round at Spyglass almost 40 years ago.  The first five holes were so exciting out there in the dunes, and the sixth was a really solid par 4.  It is pretty much a blur from then on, and I can honestly say I have never been so disappointed by the routing of a golf course again.  Surely from my perspective that is not a change of pace RTJ could have been that proud of.

[Alfonso Erhardt]

I can only speak of his Spanish courses (I think a total of 12), but the original Sotogrande (1965) I believe is clearly better than the newer one (Valderrama). Better routing, much better par 3s and very varied set of par 4s. I find it interesting that he does mention both of them among his favorite. Together with Las Brisas and Mijas, also by RTJ, also in the Costa del Sol, they make up the more enjoyable courses worth playing down there (plus three others by Javier Arana, of course).

Regards,

[Ronald Montesano]

At what point (geographic or chronometric), however, do his courses cease being his and begin being Roger Rulewich's?

[PCCraig]

Point O' Woods, Bellerive, Old Warson, Peachtree, The Dunes are the best of his that I've seen.

[Lester George]

Love the Dunes, Golden Horseshoe Gold is very good as well.

Lester

[Jay Flemma]

I know John will be upset with my saying this, but Seven Oaks does nothing for me.

I think The Dunes and Peachtree are two of his best (that I like at least).  I also hear good things about Point O' Woods, but haven't seen it.

[Tom_Doak]

At what point (geographic or chronometric), however, do his courses cease being his and begin being Roger Rulewich's?

Ronald:

I think Rulewich and the rest of the company did the courses on the Alabama trail project ... I don't think Mr. Jones got down there very often.  But before that, he was still traveling and meeting clients the same way he did it for 50 years.  He never spent a ton of time on site during construction anywhere; he believed a lot of his design was in the plans, and he was comfortable with delegating what wasn't.

A lot of his courses in Europe were not supervised by Roger at all; those were done by Cabell Robinson and the European office.

[Michael Whitaker]

We have two very good ones in SC:  The Dunes Golf & Beach Club and the Chanticleer Course at Greenville Country Club.

Also, not one of his worldwide best... but, the Crooked Oaks course on Seabrook Island is very entertaining with an unusual routing (for this neck of the woods)

[A.G._Crockett]

Peachtree is far and away the best of RTJ that I have seen.  Hard for me to imagine that he did anything a lot better than that; if so, I'd love to play there.

[J_ Crisham]

AG,  I would agree with your description of Peachtree being his best but Point O Woods isn't far behind. Some very nice holes both short and long.  For years it tested the young and long at the Western Am.         Jack

[Ed Oden]

I've played about 20 RTJ courses.  Like AG and Jack, Peachtree is clearly the best I have seen.  I must confess, however, that I like both Spyglass and Firestone South, although neither is in the same class as Peachtree. 

[JNC Lyon]

The upstaters here have mentioned Crag Burn and Seven Oaks several times.  Both courses are very solid.  Crag Burn is certainly a notch or two above Seven Oaks.

I've played Seven Oaks dozens of times, and while there are a few bland holes, there are several excellent ones.  The par threes are all excellent (I've never seen a hole quite like the 2nd or the 14th), and the long par fours are still tough for today's players.  The course also has a Golden Age ethos of defending par at the greens rather than off the tee.  There are a few tough driving holes (5 from all the way back, 6, 7, 9, 18), but there are no fairway bunkers.  The long hitter can get away with a lot if he misses it in the right spot.  Yet he will be endlessly befuddled by the greens.  This trait makes Seven Oaks refreshingly different from the usual RTJ test.

As for Crag Burn, you will not believe how good it is until you have played it a few times.  The overall experience certainly tops the high-priced, overcrowded resort courses at Mauna Kea, Spyglass, etc.  Crag Burn also showcases RTJ's overlooked strength => first-rate short fours.

I played Crooked Oaks at Seabrook Island a few times a long time ago.  It did have a few interesting holes, but nothing outstanding.

I also pose the following question: to what extent do Robert Trent Jones' most famous redesigns qualify on this list?  At Oak Hill, Oakland Hills, and Baltusrol, RTJ (or Rees) are responsible for most of the current bunkering and a few of the current green sites.  Can this be labeled as Trent Jones courses?

[JNC Lyon]

The best RTJ  course in the country is Crag Burn GC in East Aurora, NY

John,

How are you?  I certainly agree with this assessment from my limited experience with RTJ.  What other RTJ courses have you seen nationally that compare favorably (or unfavorably) with Crag Burn--besides Seven Oaks of course.

[Chip Gaskins]

Dunes (my first good/great course!)
Peachtree (probably the best)
RTJ (at least the current version)

[Michael Taylor]

While I have only played one RTJ layout in Australia, I believe it to be the most fun course I've ever played (National Old).

By the way, I clearly have a limited experience with RTJ, but do most of his courses contain greens as severe as the National Old course?

Pup

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