[Gary Slatter]

Any news on paspalum?  I've just arrived here on Canouan Island and we have some challenges and opportunities and wondered what everyone with paspalum experience thinks about it.   I like it but....

[Pete Lavallee]

Gary,

I played on Paspalum greens in South Africa last year; a very unique experience. From what I was told they developed naturally at Durban CC. Durban CC is only a highway away from the Indian Ocean and occasionally gets flooded with salt water; perhaps this explains the resistance to salt water. Many of the other course in that area, which features a hot and humid climate, use it for gren surfaces as well. It's very much like common bermuda but the blades of grass stick straight up, then it's cropped like a Marine haircut. The greens we played were moderately slow, but I could see them much faster if they were cut shorter. The complete lack of grain was a very nice feature. I would imagine thet it would make for a great fairway surface too.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Iant that what they have on the Ocean Course at Kiawah?
If that is the case, just played on them recently and they were superb..really really good.

[Bill_McBride]

Any news on paspalum?  I've just arrived here on Canouan Island and we have some challenges and opportunities and wondered what everyone with paspalum experience thinks about it.   I like it but....

Check with Forrest Richardson.  I think he is pretty happy with the experience at the Links at Las Palomas in Puerto Pensasco Mexico on the northern coast of the Sea of Cortez.

[Gary Slatter]

It is a great grass to play on. I've found the blades are a bit waxy feeling and it is easy to stick a chip shot if you don't hit it crisply. Other than that it's good as you have the same grass on tees, fairways and greens.

What I was asking about is the maintenance of paspalum compared to bermuda.  I was wondering if any of the supers on the site had experience with it.

[Jed Peters]

Gary!

Congrats on the job change!

Hey, from chilly St. Andrews to the Caribbean ain't too bad!

And, with a Trump golf club on-site, you'll be able to do plenty of reciprocal travel still!

As for the grass--have you spoken to the guys over at Casa de Campo....I originally heard that they were the pioneers of this strain....

[Anthony_Nysse]

Iant that what they have on the Ocean Course at Kiawah?
If that is the case, just played on them recently and they were superb..really really good.

Michael,
  They do have paspalum on their greens. I played there in May several years back when they were activily growing and I thought that the were VERY sticky, BUT the greens were somewhat new. Maybe the staff has them figured out.

[Kyle Henderson]

Any news on paspalum?  I've just arrived here on Canouan Island and we have some challenges and opportunities and wondered what everyone with paspalum experience thinks about it.   I like it but....

Check with Forrest Richardson.  I think he is pretty happy with the experience at the Links at Las Palomas in Puerto Pensasco Mexico on the northern coast of the Sea of Cortez.

He also used Paspalum at the Olivas Links in Ventura, CA. Hopefully he'll chime in.

[Brent Hutto]

We just returned from a few days one island south of Kiawah at Edisto Beach. I played the golf course there which was completely regrassed three years ago with a variety of Paspalum called "Sea Island Supreme". I must say that even with this year's unusual weather pattern and a couple inches of rain the week before we arrived the putting greens were rolling absolutely awesome. And the fairways were in the as good shape as I've ever seen the course. Between the Ocean Course at Kiawah and now much lower budget Edisto Beach course I must say I love putting on Paspalum in the winter.

These greens didn't look nearly as consistently green and lush as the Poa Triv overseeded ones you see at a lot of high-$$$ courses around here but they were like some of the UK courses I've played that look a little patchy until you noticed your 20-foot putts rolling absolutely true with little to no grain effect. Another success for Paspalum on the SC coast.

[Will Spivey]

Iant that what they have on the Ocean Course at Kiawah?
If that is the case, just played on them recently and they were superb..really really good.

I  just played Ocean yesterday -- what a great golf course.  However, the paspalum greens were completely dormant.  I like fast and firm, but these were dead, fast and firm.  Putts rolled true (though I found the greens harder to read when dormant than when green), but the greens were very difficult to hold, particularly from short distances. I will also say that they looked terrible.  I don't mind a little brown, but these were nothing but brown.

When the greens aren't dormant I think they're OK.  They have no grain (that I can notice) and putts roll true.  In my experience I've never seen them particularly fast, but I suspect they can be cut pretty tight for tournament play.

I always love playing Ocean, but I have to admit, the greens yesterday were a great disappointment.

[Dave_Miller]

Any news on paspalum?  I've just arrived here on Canouan Island and we have some challenges and opportunities and wondered what everyone with paspalum experience thinks about it.   I like it but....

Gary:
Personally I don't care for Paspalum. It is very spongy and sticky.  Ball gets very little roll although the ball sits up nicely. We considered using this when we the renovation was being done on the East Course at Admirals Cove.  Ultimately we decided the cons outweighed the pros and decided on Celebration Bermuda. Celebration has many of the features of paspalum but fewer of the cons.

Fairways and Greens
Dave

[Ryan Farrow]

Iant that what they have on the Ocean Course at Kiawah?
If that is the case, just played on them recently and they were superb..really really good.

I  just played Ocean yesterday -- what a great golf course.  However, the paspalum greens were completely dormant.  I like fast and firm, but these were dead, fast and firm.  Putts rolled true (though I found the greens harder to read when dormant than when green), but the greens were very difficult to hold, particularly from short distances. I will also say that they looked terrible.  I don't mind a little brown, but these were nothing but brown.

When the greens aren't dormant I think they're OK.  They have no grain (that I can notice) and putts roll true.  In my experience I've never seen them particularly fast, but I suspect they can be cut pretty tight for tournament play.

I always love playing Ocean, but I have to admit, the greens yesterday were a great disappointment.

Will, let me get this straight. The greens rolled true but were brown. So they are a great disappointment?


Difficult to hold from short distances?
What does that mean?
Did you try landing the ball short and letting it roll?
Were you hitting your short approaches high enough or with enough spin?
That sounds like a you problem?

About 2 weeks ago, I played Southern Dunes in Arizona, no overseed, only tees. Everything was brown, the greens were some of the truest and fastest greens I have putted on in Arizona. I think they are Tiff or Bermuda...

I like my golf courses green but I thought it even looked great brown, not to mention its played great, firm and fast, a least the GCA crowd would like it.

I'm just not following you... thats all.


 

[Will Spivey]

Ryan,

Are you implying my game needs work?!  That would be quite an understatement! 

I'm not a great player (current index is 10), but the greens wouldn't hold anything.  I don't mind brown, but perhaps I should have been more specific.  My issue was an overall lack of turf, irrespective of color.  I hit the ball pretty high (very helpful @ the Ocean Course - NOT!), but the ball would barely leave a mark and would roll a long way.  If you've played Ocean you know that many (most?) of the greens aren't receptive to run up shots, so you often have to carry the ball on to the green.  However, once on the green I'd stand over my ball and see more dirt than turf.  I suppose my driveway would putt fairly true, but that doesn't mean I'd like it.

Does this clarify?

[Kyle Harris]

Ryan,

Are you implying my game needs work?!  That would be quite an understatement! 

I'm not a great player (current index is 10), but the greens wouldn't hold anything.  I don't mind brown, but perhaps I should have been more specific.  My issue was an overall lack of turf, irrespective of color.  I hit the ball pretty high (very helpful @ the Ocean Course - NOT!), but the ball would barely leave a mark and would roll a long way.  If you've played Ocean you know that many (most?) of the greens aren't receptive to run up shots, so you often have to carry the ball on to the green.  However, once on the green I'd stand over my ball and see more dirt than turf.  I suppose my driveway would putt fairly true, but that doesn't mean I'd like it.

Does this clarify?

Sounds like the definition of the ideal maintenance meld - where a well-struck 8 iron lightly dents the green.

[John Moore II]

Paspalum is very resistant to salt water and "grey" water. Meaning you can use recycled water and such to irrigate, from what I understand about it. However, I have been told by some Super's that it is not very fungus resistant and must be treated with fungicide regularly. As far as the surface, its as good as any I've seen. PGA Golf Club has paspalum on the tees of the Dye course and they were excellent. I think it also works better staying green during the coolish winters of south-center Florida.

[Jaeger Kovich]

I thought the Paspalum at TOC was great! You dont get huge breaks on the greens, everything seems to break from the corners in, and they definitely hold the lines.... which I would think is great for public golf. Like others have said, you wont get big ball marks, if at all, and they tend to be reddish when not repaired properly (little odd, not bad, but odd)... And if you dont think you can get them fast, just ask any one who played in the Senior PGA there!!! Lightning!!!

Will - If you couldn't play run-up shots at TOC you weren't doing it right! I've never had so much fun playing the putter from off the green. It was my favorite club all week!

[Sean_A]

So far as I know, TOC is the Papsalum course I have played. The greens were very good despite being treated a week (I think) earlier.  However, the transition between fairways and greens wasn't great as the lusher grass made it very difficult to gage putting/chipping from just off the greens.  I thought these transition zones needed quite a bit of work to truly bring the ground options alive.

Ciao

[Forrest Richardson]

Gary — Our turf — tees, fairways, roughs and greens — at The Links at Las Palomas are SeaDwarf. The course is in Peñasco, Sonora, Mexico. That is about 200 miles south of Phoenix, Arizona, on the Sea of Cortez.

http://www.environmentalturf.com/grasses_seadwarf.html

We do not overseed. Paspalums like loads of potassium and they need significant verticutting to lessen thatch. Paspalum hates shade. It likes salts (we water with 3,000 to 5,000 PPM regularly), but also likes flushing on a periodic basis. The greens at Las Palomas are rolled weekly and topdressed twice per month with native sand. (Mother Nature also "topdresses" every so often.)



If you ever want an expert conversation, I recommend you speak with Rick Gillespie, greenkeeper at las Palomas. Please e-mail me if you would like his contact info.

[Gary Slatter]

THanks all!   Forrest, I will be in touch today. 

[Jake Straub]

Gary

I can't remember who I heard this from but one super who was trying to grow it from seed had all sorts of issues at establishment because his water source was high in salts/sodium.  He was fine using that water once they were established but initially it hurt him.  I know that one of selling points is that you can use brackish, high salt/sodium water.

[Gary Slatter]

Jake, thanks.  We have established paspalum, and will use our own sprigs to patch areas.  You are able to use high salt content water, gradually increasing it over 6-8 weeks.  I remember Paradise Island lost all their grass by using sea water right from the start instead of  making the change in steps.  We're battling thatch on the greens and tees, and cutting more frequently which paspalum requires.

[Forrest Richardson]

Definitely — Paspalum grows-in best when fresh water is used.

The natural process was described to me as follows:

In its early, natural form, paspalum took root along marshy areas where recent rains ran across the land and provided water and nutrients in the form of silts and organic debris. As the plant grew it relied on the rainfall, but learned to tolerate great lengths of drought. When faced with death, the plant sent aggressive roots toward the shorelines of the marsh, even going so far as to invade the salty water to sustain its life. This cycle — drought and then salt intake...followed by fresh water from periodic rains  — became the norm for the plant. To provide this general cycle is now considered best practice, although in the context of modern turfgrass care and management.

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