"Short" Holes: Why aren't more of these built ?

[Kevin Pallier]

I my recent trip to the USA I came across 3 "Short" holes.

All are variations on a theme of a well protected green (by bunkers / dropoffs etc) plus a green divided into areas. The targets weren't overly small which was interesting on a hole of such a length. Significant back to front slopes were also common.

What are some other examples ? (would love to see photos)

Which is your favourite ? Why ?

Why do you think holes like this aren't built more often ?


NGLA 6th (141yds)


Fishers Island 16th (146yds)


Old Macdonald 5th (125-165yds)

[Jeff_Brauer]

You would call the 17th at TPC a "short" but the modern version has more water and less sand.

In general, they have fallen out of favor in the name of providing all players a way on the green.  Ron Whitten once wrote how unusual it was when I bunkered a fw on both sides, RTJ style on one hole.  I think these kind of greens have fallen by the wayside when, about 50 years ago, the more options less penal (or is that MORE OPTIONS! ----LESS PENAL!" (ala the Miller Lite commercials.....)  took hold and we just sort of forgot about that type of hole as something you would typically include.

On a short par 3 with forward tees, you think you could get away with one.

[Bill_McBride]

Jeff, do you mean the architect today has to leave room for the player to bounce a shot onto the green?  That's what the Old Macdonald, and the original Short at St Andrews do, but you might not be happy with where you wind up!

[J_ Crisham]

Kevin,  One of my favorite "short" holes in my hometown is the 10th at Chicago Golf Club.  The green is similar to the 16th at Fishers Island. The bunkering is almost the same. This also is one of the more challenging greens at CGC. Distance is in the 135-155 range over a pond that should not come into play. My guess is that some designers today feel that big brawny holes are a necessity to combat the ball/equipment changes we have seen since 1990 or so. If the longer holes are being built in an effort to combat low scores they are mistaken - these greens offer very challenging putts,even from short distances, which in effect will defend par.                   Jack

[Jaeger Kovich]

Tilly wrote about the "short" holes as well... pretty much the same idea as CBM, if its going to be a short iron approach on a par 3 then, it should be the most heavily defended.

Quaker Ridge #5 is a pretty good one. 150 yrds for members, 113yrds for women, slightly downhill. Bunkers left, right and back, water in front. Green is divided into 2 sections (front and back) by a horizontal ridge, but don't be surprised if your putt breaks uphill.

[Tony Ristola]

I thought the 8th at the Old Course was fantastic. One central bunker, a flat green that slopes away slightly... simply brilliant.

Evaluating the local conditions, it's a cost effective concept that produces masses of interest. It could have well fit into the CB/Rayner template.

.

[Bill_McBride]

I thought the 8th at the Old Course was fantastic. One central bunker, a flat green that slopes away slightly... simply brilliant.

Evaluating the local conditions, it's a cost effective concept that produces masses of interest. It could have well fit into the CB/Rayner template.

.

Tony, I think the 8th at the Old Course IS the model for the CBM/Raynor Short Holes.

[Mark Pearce]

I thought the 8th at the Old Course was fantastic. One central bunker, a flat green that slopes away slightly... simply brilliant.

Evaluating the local conditions, it's a cost effective concept that produces masses of interest. It could have well fit into the CB/Rayner template.

.

Tony, I think the 8th at the Old Course IS the model for the CBM/Raynor Short Holes.

Can someone more knowledgable clear this up for me?  I had always understood, like Bill that the model was 8 at TOC.  However, I read recently that it was 5 at Royal West Norfolk that was the original inspiration which might make more sense, seeing the style of hole (like the NGLA and Fishers Island examples above) which are called "Short" in the States.

[James Boon]

Mark,

I wouldn't claim to be more knowledgable, but in “The Evangelist of Golf” by George Bahto, he mentions CBMs “Short” hole template to be inspired by the 5th at Brancaster (aka Royal West Norfolk). It was recently discussed on here that this is currently Brancaster’s 4th, a par 3 of 129 yards, to a raised up green.

I did instantly think of the 4th at Brancaster, when I spotted this thread. Here's a few pictures (taken with my old camera phone I'm afraid). First from the tee,


And from short right, highlighting the fall off short and the railway sleepers, plus the flag of the 14th hole to the right


Cheers,

James

[Brian Phillips]

I thought the 8th at the Old Course was fantastic. One central bunker, a flat green that slopes away slightly... simply brilliant.

Evaluating the local conditions, it's a cost effective concept that produces masses of interest. It could have well fit into the CB/Rayner template.

Tony,

I agree.  It is underrated by many probably because of the press that the 11th receives.  I love the 8th as it is so simple in design yet so damn difficult to birdie.

[Mark Chaplin]

4th at Deal, 16th at Sandwich and 7th at Rye are good south coast examples of short par 3s with plenty of trouble. Whilst they may not strictly be "shorts" IMHO every course needs a tricky short iron par 3, anyone can design a 230yd tough short hole but finese is tougher to pull out of the bag.

Jack - I agree with 10th at CGC, even a good tee shot can result in a good 4!

[Carl Rogers]

The 11th at Riverfront can be played from 130 to about 100 yards.  It is downhill and the bunkering shares all the usual characteristics.  

It's difficulty very deceptive.  On a calm day, it is a pretty easy hole, but when the wind is up regardless of direction hitting the green requires serious judgement and execution (for me as I am a high ball hitter).  At times I have hit 6 iron chip shots.

In a bigger picture way, I wonder if newer courses will have 5 or 6 par 3 and only 1 or 2 par fives???

[Ronald Montesano]

I remember a thread where folks argued over whether the short par three at Leatherstocking was really a "Short."  I made 5 on the true "Short" at Fox Chapel (the only Raynor I've ever played) and 3 on the one at Leatherstocking.  Pulled tee shot in the first instance, straight tee ball in the second.  No one would ever confuse the 13th at Merion with a CBM/Raynor "Short" hole, yet it is a similar hole for the majority of golfers:  short iron or wedge, small to average size, well-protected and interesting putting surface.  Likewise the 13th (what's with that number?) at Park Club near Buffalo.  This one plays 130 yards downhill, over a creek, to a little yet bunkered green.  If I had to go into specifics about what lengths of one-shot holes need exist on a layout, this type of hole always appears and instantly elevates the worth of a golf course in my opinion.

[Jason Hines]

Kevin,

Two of my favorites are on the same course, forgive the lousy photos and if someone els has other photos, please post.

#9 at Wild Horse in Nebraska.

Hole Map and pictures below.

http://www.playwildhorse.com/golf/proto/playwildhorse/coursetour09/coursetour09.htm

A couple of points I would add to their description, the front left bunker is only 90 or so yards off the tee, short of the green.  Axland and Proctor did a tremendous job of placing that bunker right in front of your face so some give their tee shots a little extra umpphhh and the wind usually at your back.  There is sneaky little bunker guarding the left side of the green that is nasty to flop out of to a slick slopping green.  I have also walked by that bunker two different times with a snake sunning himself.

Short or right side of the green leaves you a chip shot up a slopping hill back towards the green.

#11

This hole fits your earlier description of well bunkered and large green.  IMHO, the large green helps turn each pin placement into a different hole each time and there is always a danger of a three putt.  There is usually a right to left wind and the green is an absolute scream to putt on as are all the greens at WH.

http://www.playwildhorse.com/golf/proto/playwildhorse/coursetour11/coursetour11.htm



Jason

[Matt Kardash]

Could the 12th at Whistling Straits be considered an example of a short hole? Seems to have all the characteristics.

[Jay Flemma]

12 at Leantherstocking, 6 at KNoll West, and my fave (other than NGLA), 16 at Sleepy Hollow.

[Tom Birkert]

Surely 10 at Pine Valley meets the criteria here??

[Cristian]

This one is a little different from the seaside holes, so an inland version of a short hole; bunkers all around, a generous green and subtle slopes on the 130-135 yds 14th at Hilversum....



photo taken slightly left of line of play.

[Kevin Cahoon]

One of the issues with "short" holes is a perception that they do not present a great enough challenge. During the restoration at my club, we created a new par three. Many of the members thought the best way to "toughen up" the course was to create a long par 3. The club chose to go with the architect's advice and create what I believe to be a excellent "short" hole. The green has three distinct sections and only a precise short iron will leave a reasonable try for a birdie.

http://www.flossmoorcc.org/features/content_page/index.cfm?page=hole_13


 

[John Moore II]

For what its worth, I think Tobacco Road has at least two Shorts, maybe 3. And they all work really well. #6, #8, and #17 are all short holes. And they are fairly well defended, and none are approached with more than an 8 iron. Two of them (6 and 17) are wedge holes depending where the tees and holes are.

[Norbert P]

  
 I'm not sure why the concept is not used more because they often gain "favorite hole" status for courses.  One benefit of their design that I like about them is the variety of ways it gives to play a par 3 merely by moving the flagstick.  

  Here is the 14th at Wine Valley GC in Walla Walla, Washington . . .

  
  It's hard to notice from this photo but there is a large swale down the middle of the green that drains into the wash. Anybody parking their tee shot on the wrong side of it will have a difficult time at writing down a 3.  Landing in it may find you in the wash.


    

[J_ Crisham]

One of the issues with "short" holes is a perception that they do not present a great enough challenge. During the restoration at my club, we created a new par three. Many of the members thought the best way to "toughen up" the course was to create a long par 3. The club chose to go with the architect's advice and create what I believe to be a excellent "short" hole. The green has three distinct sections and only a precise short iron will leave a reasonable try for a birdie.

http://www.flossmoorcc.org/features/content_page/index.cfm?page=hole_13


 

Kevin,  Good call on the short hole at Flossmoor-tough little shot. Good to see you on the GCA team! Will have to get out and play when the weather eventually breaks.         Jack

[Ed Oden]

I'm not sure I necessarily agree that short par 3s are a dying breed.  Seems to me many of the most acclaimed designs of recent years have them.  For example:

Bandon Trails #5 - 133 yds
Bandon Dunes #6 - 161 yds
Bandon Dunes #15 - 163 yds
Pacific Dunes #11 - 148 yds
Pacific Dunes #14 - 145 yds
Friars Head #17 - approx. 145 yds
Sand Hills #17 - 150 yds
Atlantic #11 - 128 yds
Whistling Straits #12 - 166 yds
Ballyneal #3 - 133 yds
Ballyneal #5 - 165 yds
Wade Hampton #6 - 158 yds

[Ronald Montesano]

I would respectfully disqualify all of these more than 135...9 of the holes measure more than 140 yards.  Short to me means short!!  Even today, with either cool weather or wind in my face, I might hit 8 iron from 135 (normally a 9 for me.)  Obviously, my perspective is my own, but I absolutely distinguish between a pitch (9 iron or less) and an 8 7 and 6 iron shot hole.

[John Moore II]

I would respectfully disqualify all of these more than 135...9 of the holes measure more than 140 yards.  Short to me means short!!  Even today, with either cool weather or wind in my face, I might hit 8 iron from 135 (normally a 9 for me.)  Obviously, my perspective is my own, but I absolutely distinguish between a pitch (9 iron or less) and an 8 7 and 6 iron shot hole.

I agree with you here Ronald. I think for a hole to be considered "Short" it should be less than 135ish yards. Thats not saying a hole 150 but way downhill can't be Short, but on flat land, about 135 yards is the max. Short holes need precision, you can't be terribly precise with 8 irons. The higher the club used into the green, the less severe the green can be, as a rule. Make the hole really short and make the green really crazy, I like the sound of that.